Future of Daz Studio

24

Comments

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,600
    sura_tc said:

    It is true that Daz render is frowned upon outside of this community here due to the fact that it's just mix & match with stock assets. In other words, anyone using Daz products end up having very similar looking characters

    At some point one does what interests one, not for the approval of a community of nay sayers. To me downvoting someone merely because they use a modeling program they dissaprove of seems.... Petty. I wouldn't care for such a person's opinion.

  • mmkdazmmkdaz Posts: 335

    I love this program! The future is bright!

  • namffuaknamffuak Posts: 4,111
    kyoto kid said:

    ...exactly, GenX would remain "broken" unless someone else is allowed to pick it up and update it to the new SDK.

    For my work that would seriously cripple what I do in Daz.

     

    Also, come on guys, deciding that a version of a program deserves a new number isn't what breaks plugins. Nor does it mean anything meaningfully more awesome than previous updates happened. A number ticking up or staying the same isn't going to hurt or help anything.

    No, version 5 is a new sdk..

    It absolutely does not have to be.

     

    While true, may software developers tend to reserve a change of major version for exactly that; a massive change in the underlying software development kit that could potentially break other things that may or may not be easily updated.

    Yep, it's a fair practice, and it's what DAZ does, but it's not at all some standard rule that can't be broken and not even very typical. Most Photoshop plugins work just fine when the program jumps forward a version, for example.

    Yes. But the Big Change for Studio 5 will be upgrading to the QT 5+ toolkit; Studio is currently using QT 4.5 IIRC. The DAZ SDK is a tailored and expanded version of the QT SDK so changing the QT version will force an SDK version change and a number of the QT interfaces change with QT 5. Among other things, QT 5 supports font scaling in all display elements, something people with 4K resolution monitors have been waiting for - and this changes the calling API for just about any function that puts text on the screen.

  • namffuak said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...exactly, GenX would remain "broken" unless someone else is allowed to pick it up and update it to the new SDK.

    For my work that would seriously cripple what I do in Daz.

     

    Also, come on guys, deciding that a version of a program deserves a new number isn't what breaks plugins. Nor does it mean anything meaningfully more awesome than previous updates happened. A number ticking up or staying the same isn't going to hurt or help anything.

    No, version 5 is a new sdk..

    It absolutely does not have to be.

     

    While true, may software developers tend to reserve a change of major version for exactly that; a massive change in the underlying software development kit that could potentially break other things that may or may not be easily updated.

    Yep, it's a fair practice, and it's what DAZ does, but it's not at all some standard rule that can't be broken and not even very typical. Most Photoshop plugins work just fine when the program jumps forward a version, for example.

    Yes. But the Big Change for Studio 5 will be upgrading to the QT 5+ toolkit; Studio is currently using QT 4.5 IIRC. The DAZ SDK is a tailored and expanded version of the QT SDK so changing the QT version will force an SDK version change and a number of the QT interfaces change with QT 5. Among other things, QT 5 supports font scaling in all display elements, something people with 4K resolution monitors have been waiting for - and this changes the calling API for just about any function that puts text on the screen.

    Suddenly I'm both in agreement that they absolutely must break plugins for DS 5, and that they should do it now. laugh

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,928
    edited January 2018

    ...I'll stick with Daz 4.10.  Not worth losing my GenX Plugins for good over 4K font scaling.  Don't have a 4K display or GPU card to support it anyway.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,032
    edited January 2018

    Really if DS plugin developers wont be actively updating for DS 5.0 then it's time DAZ 3D or other plugin vendors step into that vacacy. Most of the plugins I own were created by DAZ 3D at any rate. I believe I must of bought every plugin they sell. If, for example Girabaldi doesn't update for DS 5 well it's already quite clear they aren't supporting their plugin for any version of DAZ Studio for a while now. Same with KeyMate, Graphmate, Animate2 (although the last month indicates maybe that is changing for GoFigure).

    Post edited by nonesuch00 on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,928

    ...the PA who created GenX passed on.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,032
    edited January 2018
    kyoto kid said:

    ...the PA who created GenX passed on.

    A business can't stop development of it's product(s) because a employee or PA quit, died, or became disabled or because some customers want to stick with old technology or old models.

    With your rheumatism or arthritis, sorry I forget which, future DAZ Studio QT upgrades might allow for things like voice control so you could say something like

    Load  - Smart Content - Figures - Genesis 8 Basic Female

    Translate - Genesis 8 Female - Right Forearm Bend - Bend 76, Twist -90

    ...

    I wouldn't mind that myself really.

    Post edited by nonesuch00 on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,928

    ...for myself without GenX, a lot of the usefulness of Daz is lost.  I do an extreme amount of gene pool mixing across several generations to create original and unique characters. As I mentioned I will stay with whatever the last version of 4.x is should that happen particularly if the "improvments" in 5 will do little to enhance what I already do.  I no longer am in a position to make a heavy re-investment to make the next full rlease version as useful as what I already have.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,032
    kyoto kid said:

    ...for myself without GenX, a lot of the usefulness of Daz is lost.  I do an extreme amount of gene pool mixing across several generations to create original and unique characters. As I mentioned I will stay with whatever the last version of 4.x is should that happen particularly if the "improvments" in 5 will do little to enhance what I already do.  I no longer am in a position to make a heavy re-investment to make the next full rlease version as useful as what I already have.

    You should make sure to do like the Bryce and Carrarra users and keep an old copy of DAZ Studio installed. You should also look at Singular Blues scripts and SickleYield's tutorials as several users have said they work better than the GenX products. It's my understanding from a few forum posters the GenX products aren't that significantly easier to use than learning to do the process yourself anyway.

  • kyoto kid said:

    ...for myself without GenX, a lot of the usefulness of Daz is lost.  I do an extreme amount of gene pool mixing across several generations to create original and unique characters.

    You can do this with Transfer Utility. Unless you still after all this time have a whole bunch of pre-Genesis morphs not converted to one of the Genesis generations.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,928

    ...I've been working with GenX from when it was released and have it down pretty well.  Workflow wise I find it to be far more efficient than manually transferring over each morph and shape I need.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,032

    I'm curious now - has anybody transferred all the V4 and M4 Morphs++ and other assorted morphs to Genesis? I haven't even tried to collect them but have a list of M4/V4 morphs I've gotten in various bundles a mile long.

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    kyoto kid said:

    ...exactly, GenX would remain "broken" unless someone else is allowed to pick it up and update it to the new SDK.

    For my work that would seriously cripple what I do in Daz.

     

    Also, come on guys, deciding that a version of a program deserves a new number isn't what breaks plugins. Nor does it mean anything meaningfully more awesome than previous updates happened. A number ticking up or staying the same isn't going to hurt or help anything.

    No, version 5 is a new sdk..

    It absolutely does not have to be.

    You aren't listening. Version 5 is a new sdk code branch. That comes from the developers NOT speculation. 

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,032
    kyoto kid said:

    ...I've been working with GenX from when it was released and have it down pretty well.  Workflow wise I find it to be far more efficient than manually transferring over each morph and shape I need.

    Sounds like you are likely to have all the pre-Genesis morphs (that you want) already transferred into various versions of Genesis then. If that's the case, most users that have used both GenX and Singular Blue's morph transfer scripts, prefer Singular Blue's transfer scripts. You should work on getting all your characters to Genesis 3 and then Genesis 8.

  • PedroCPedroC Posts: 194

    LOL !!!. I was here. cheeky

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,928

    ...I have the capability to transfer the shapes and morphs to G3 through GenX and really have no difficulty doing so, so why would I need to do so manually?

    Not bothering with G8 as like I mentioned I am not in the position to make another hefty investment, in this case, to make G8 as versatile and useful as G3 is. I am living below the poverty line on SS and have to be extremely frugal with what I purchase in the future as well as resourceful with what I already have.  I am quite satisfied with the results I have been achieving with G3 and honestly see little need to adopt G8 for my purposes. 

  • kyoto kid said:

    ...I have the capability to transfer the shapes and morphs to G3 through GenX and really have no difficulty doing so, so why would I need to do so manually?

    You wouldn't, but you only need to do it once, so what do you still need GenX for?

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,347
    kyoto kid said:

    ...I have the capability to transfer the shapes and morphs to G3 through GenX and really have no difficulty doing so, so why would I need to do so manually?

    You wouldn't, but you only need to do it once, so what do you still need GenX for?

    Because people are constantly acquring new content, particularly morphs or characters for older generations (ie Genesis 2 or earlier). Not everyone can pay the prices of the latest and greatest, and picking up stuff for older characters to use on the newer figures is a more affordable option.

  • sura_tc said:

    I consider Daz as an easy entry to 3D modelling. That's how I started to learn 3D modelling. I still use Daz assets (mostly hair since they are cheap) but I don't use Daz characters anymore since anyone familiar with 3D recognizes it and down-votes it.

    It is true that Daz render is frowned upon outside of this community here due to the fact that it's just mix & match with stock assets. In other words, anyone using Daz products end up having very similar looking characters.

    I've seen quite a few disparate characters in the DAZ gallery and as with real 3D modeling outside the DAZ world it's simply a matter of making bespoke textures and post processing and FX for DAZ models to lend morphed based geometries used in renders a air of bespoke originality.

    They are free to disreguard someone like myself's 3D modeling and even texturing skills, that's just common sense comparison of hobby renderer compared to professional or hobby 3D modeler, but really it is getting easier and easier to create technically better and interesting original renders and scenes using DAZ content. Wityh that then it's simply a matter of story telling in a render. 

    And this is where a lot of the "cork sniffers" fall flat: they can't tell a good story.

    Ready-made assets are no different than a typewriter and paper, or pencils, or ink and canvas. They are merely the tools. How many of the physical media snobs made their own media? Not many, I assure you. And yes, that is the exact comparison. Michelangelo bought blocks of marble from a quarry that were mostly pre-shaped into blocks. He did not carve them out of the earth himself, and it certainly doesn't come out in large obelisks ready for chiseling. 

    Storytellers use ready-made tools to tell their story, because the story is what matters, not the tools.

    "It's not the arrow, it's the hunter". 

    My brother had to deal with this back in the early 2000s when he was selling his Mardi Gras posters, which were all done in Poser and Paint Shop Pro. Art School Snobs berated his work since it was digital and proclaimed "anyone can do it" so he broke out a laptop at his vending table and let them try it. They could not do it. People who had to go to school to be taught how to paint could not create anything they were not trained to create using tools they were not trained on because they were no-talent hacks.

     

  • ebergerlyebergerly Posts: 3,255
    Or maybe the "snobs" are merely looking at what people produce and arent impressed. I can certainly understand that.
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,032
    kyoto kid said:

    ...I have the capability to transfer the shapes and morphs to G3 through GenX and really have no difficulty doing so, so why would I need to do so manually?

    Not bothering with G8 as like I mentioned I am not in the position to make another hefty investment, in this case, to make G8 as versatile and useful as G3 is. I am living below the poverty line on SS and have to be extremely frugal with what I purchase in the future as well as resourceful with what I already have.  I am quite satisfied with the results I have been achieving with G3 and honestly see little need to adopt G8 for my purposes. 

    Well then I don't see why you are worried about DAZ Studio 5 then either. If you are comfortable with old and unsupported technology than simply add DAZ Studio 4.10.x to that list and stop fretting about DAZ Studio 5 loosing support for GenX really.

  • Re: the Future. I think that Daz will continue to dominate the hobbyist/prosumer CG market for a very, very long time.

    Re:Snobbery. I've been an avid photographer for years. Since the advent of quality point-and-shoot there have been many purists who insist that if you aren't shooting in fully manual mode, you are not a "true" photographer and that auto-anything is a bad thing. And yet many successful, working professional photogs shoot exclusively in apeture priority or shutter priority modes depending on the assignment and subject matter.  As a guitarist, I remember when companies like Digitech and Korg introduced multi-effects units with preslugged, predialed combinations of chorus/delay/wah-wah/etc. The purists decried anyone using canned combinations and often claimed that you needed to string together Boss pedals and dial in your own tones if you were a "true" electric guitarist. And yet many successful, working, regularly gigging local musos use these multieffects pedalboard units with some of the effects set to their stock values. I see a very clear analogy with DS/Poser snobs.

     

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,591

    Ready-made assets are no different than a typewriter and paper, or pencils, or ink and canvas.

    I understand what you are saying, but personally, I don't believe it's quite so black or white. IMHO, DAZ assets are a level of abstraction (or two) above paper, or pencils, or ink and canvas. If they weren't, they wouldn't be nearly as useful!

    - Greg

     

  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,818
    ebergerly said:
    Or maybe the "snobs" are merely looking at what people produce and arent impressed. I can certainly understand that.

    No it is an evil conspiracy to destroy the self esteem of daz users causing the creation of mutual validation threads. In these forums.
  • kyoto kid said:

    ...I have the capability to transfer the shapes and morphs to G3 through GenX and really have no difficulty doing so, so why would I need to do so manually?

    Not bothering with G8 as like I mentioned I am not in the position to make another hefty investment, in this case, to make G8 as versatile and useful as G3 is. I am living below the poverty line on SS and have to be extremely frugal with what I purchase in the future as well as resourceful with what I already have.  I am quite satisfied with the results I have been achieving with G3 and honestly see little need to adopt G8 for my purposes. 

    Well then I don't see why you are worried about DAZ Studio 5 then either. If you are comfortable with old and unsupported technology than simply add DAZ Studio 4.10.x to that list and stop fretting about DAZ Studio 5 loosing support for GenX really.

    I don't see why a new version is so highly "needed"...
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,032
    edited January 2018
    kyoto kid said:

    ...I have the capability to transfer the shapes and morphs to G3 through GenX and really have no difficulty doing so, so why would I need to do so manually?

    Not bothering with G8 as like I mentioned I am not in the position to make another hefty investment, in this case, to make G8 as versatile and useful as G3 is. I am living below the poverty line on SS and have to be extremely frugal with what I purchase in the future as well as resourceful with what I already have.  I am quite satisfied with the results I have been achieving with G3 and honestly see little need to adopt G8 for my purposes. 

    Well then I don't see why you are worried about DAZ Studio 5 then either. If you are comfortable with old and unsupported technology than simply add DAZ Studio 4.10.x to that list and stop fretting about DAZ Studio 5 loosing support for GenX really.

     

    I don't see why a new version is so highly "needed"...

    If you don't need it then you are welcome also to stay at a version you like too. I still have the Macromedia MX Suite from 2005 and it still works and no one will stop you either if you don't want to upgrade to DAZ Studio 5.

    DAZ 3D though does believe they need DAZ Studio 5 just like every other business are planning their future competitively in the market place.

    Post edited by nonesuch00 on
  • j cadej cade Posts: 2,310
    edited January 2018

    I am all for a new version I just don't see why it needs to have a 5 to be meaningful. Bring on 4.12, 4.20, 4.99 etc.

    Hell, get a new sdk but keep it at 4 just for giggles. End the use of version numbers altogether. Bring on Daz Studio Eternal!!! 

     

    I'd also be good with a Studio 4.þ or 4.∆

    Post edited by j cade on
  • sura_tcsura_tc Posts: 174

    At some point one does what interests one, not for the approval of a community of nay sayers. To me downvoting someone merely because they use a modeling program they dissaprove of seems.... Petty. I wouldn't care for such a person's opinion.

    I actually agrred with them on some points.

    Their point is that you, as a 3D modeller, you should at least know the basics: basic modelling skills and knowing the terms (UV mapping, texturing, looping, etc). I was a little ashamed that I knew nothing of 3D modelling and start to learn since then.

    That's how it all began for me. While I cannot recreate the same quality of products the PAs put out, I mostly make my own things of my level.

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,600

    Sounds like you are happy and that is what counts. 

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