Armor is not carefully conside…
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I actually don't have an issue with skimpwear. I don't buy it mostly because it is mostly for ladies and I'm not really interested in pinup style.... Although I'm pleased to see the guys are getting something more than the usual barbarian loincloth, in their skimpwear. I was surprised this year to see a couple of male skimpwear armor sets.
What I really look for in body armor in sci-fi:
Helmets that look like you can remove them. In fact a removable helmet to use as a prop is something I've been wanting for a long time. It should have padding in it as well, so some thickness, not just the painted on kind of thing. Glass that can tint or be clear,.
For light armor designed for speed strategically placed padding and defensive thickness should be included. Approrpriate boots, gloves, and belts for gear would be nice, and footwear designed for easy movement, a holster for a weapon, and seams where the character can get in and out of it would be nice. A half dressed option, would be nice.
For under bodysuits/padding a suit that has some padding in the places where the armor would rub would be nice.
A lot of the "padding in places where armor would rub" could easily be done by texturing, actually. Just add a displacement map on those areas with a faint 'quilting' look.
As someone that has worn both under clothing body armor and over clothing body armor, I can tell you it is uncomfortable and very restricting. Level 4 body armor is very heavy, in the neighborhood of 40+ pounds depending on the front/back plate manufacturer, and then you have side plates and any gear you attach to it. It is solid and sacrifices a lot of movement for protection. I understand the desire to have 3D gear that looks great and moves with the character you are using, but if the PA’s modeled the armor to work as it does in real life they would be roasted for not creating a clothing set that followed the beds of the human body.
I think the PA’s do a great job of creating armor that takes the best of real world looks and function and mixes it with use and appeal to 3D artist. If you follow real world physics you will end up with armored gear that has your character unable to bend or move their limbs and it will quickly lose its appeal and more than likely will result in the item being returned for a refund. If the PA balances looks with real world physics and takes trends and ease of use for the end user, you get outfits that look great but wouldn’t really stand up to real world use.
What it comes down to is do you want a character you can bend and pose that is wearing armored space gear, or do you want realistic gear that makes your character more of a furniture piece to your scene? You can’t have it both ways.
I think one of the big problems with armor is that there isn't "rigid" material. You can kind of get there with weight mapping, but it's often impresise at best.
I purchase many of their items, and then texture them with iRay shaders. The results are amazing. Worth the time to do so, as the sets look great with the new shaders applied. That plastic look you speak of vanishes and the sets pop like you wouldn't believe. Became a huge fan of their work after learning how to do this.
I didn't care for the results, personally. I use shaders all the time, but, for me, I didn't hink they looked realistic re-shaded. I also find their outfits clip a lot, so I pass now.
Yeah, those skimpy armors, I just wonder who was ever supposed to use them. Were they parade uniforms? Or used by immortal gods who had no use for armor (hey, even Pallas Athena on those red wase paintings was better protected)? One solution to make them just a little bit more usable, is to dress the character up in a second skin which is a chain mail or at least a leather outfit and then strap the other thing on top of it. There are some good Iray metal shaders that can be used for chain mails, just remember to turn the displacements down/off or it'll poke through the skimparmour!
That doesn't mean I'm not a fan of more realistic stuff. Especially armors for the ladies which do not look like metal bras. The chest should be flat, or you'll melt inside on a sunny day. And then the bad guys can trottle off to the bar, laughing all the way.
I could not agree more. Armor constricts movement, and the heavier and more protective the armor the more the movement is constricted. I seem to remember years ago when Mortem Vetus created a realistic suit of armor for M4, they even included a disclaimer that poses would need to be restricted for the sake of realism when the armor was loaded to M4.
My all time favorite and gold standard for scifi armor in my view is the GRIM armor from SanctumArt. It is an old M3/V3 set but it has never been surpassed in quality (even the interior padding is modeled). I have converted the materials to IRAY and use it with an invisible M3 low res without texture inside and a G3F/M head when needed. If you have all the parts it is also quite versatile, there are several helmets, chest pieces and add-ons. Sadly it is not available for purchase anymore.
Ciao
TD
Dang nabbit - I want! That is one nice looking set!
I'm fond of this set:
http://www.daz3d.com/order-of-the-wolf
Yeah, not scifi, but still. I'm cooking a render with it right now, maybe I'll try to make a scifi version...
It's not unusual not to have elaborate groin protection. A lot of historic armors had some variety of armored skirt + rigid torso armor. The trick is, well, rigid torso armor. Thankfully that's not terribly hard to replicate assuming you have an audience willing not to return items that don't just automagically work.
'Huh, I wonder if there's Roman Centurion armor in Daz store...'
... sigh
The shield's not big enough!
Roman's motto "Come home with your shield, or on it"
Their shields were so big that they were used as a gurney to carry wounded or dead. This also meant they were so heavy that if you ran from battle, you would have to drop your shield and leave it behind.
*edit*
oh wait, that was the greeks... close enough
http://www.daz3d.com/pretorian-for-genesis
http://www.daz3d.com/heracles-for-genesis
http://www.daz3d.com/legion-for-genesis
Yeah, Chohole... I looked at those. They are still rather light on armor (I already have Heracles from something).
Legion is awfully close and could probably be supplemented for more heavily armored soldiers. It's been on my wishlist a while. ;)
Historically, those areas were left "soft armored." I'm sure someone will chime in with an exception since there always is one historically, but at least concerning European armors and speaking very generally...
The joint areas, as I'll call them (neck, underarks, inner thighs, back of the knees) had to move and articulate. Therefore, plate armor or a solid sci-fi equivalent for those doing sci-fi renders simply wouldn't work. Those areas were often covered with something like thick padded cloth, which is actually far better at defeating everything from arrows to blades than most people think, to leather to chain mail. The key is that in these areas, flexibility is paramount or else the medieval warrior wouldn't be able to move. Often, a combination or layering of materials was used in these areas, as well as underneath plate, to provide additional levels of protection. For example, chain mail does not work well on it's own; it usually requries something underneath it to really rise to a level of adequate protection from blunt force trauma, for example, a well as piercing projectiles like a bodkin point. It all depended upon how wealthy the knight or warrior was, and on what he could afford to equip himself with.
Okay, so what does that mean for us? Having those joint areas uncovered by solid armor isn't necessarily wrong, but there should be something there, like a chainmail skirt, for example, for medieval models. For sci fi or modern armors, also somethign should be there, perhaps like the "tongue" we see hanging down from many police and military style body armors from the front of the torso down in front of the wearer's, ahem, private areas. Look at a baseball catcher's mask; it often has a tongue handing down from the chin to cover the nexk and protect it from errant balls. This started with the Dodgers in the '70s and eventually percolated down to the rest of baseball, including many umpires' masks. I'd like to see our DAZ armor designers come up with similar things to make their armors more realistic. Medieval armors often featured these, as well, often expressed as small runded plates hung from the exterior of the coat of plate over the joint, not in it to preserve mobility.
I wouls also suggest that anyone modeling armors really do some reasearch as armor is a hackneyed topic. Many of the armors seen in museums are partial suits, cobbled together from various parts and may not necessarily represent a "real" suit of armor. I'd really suggest reading Mr. Capwell's book on English armors to see what a specific late medieval suit looekd like, and how the styles changed, and why (http://www.wallacecollection.org/shop/books/specialist-books/armour-of-the-english-knight-1400-1450-by-tobias-capwell). Granted, it's an expensive book but it's cost might just be amortized by an intrepid and detail oriented armor designer in the form of increased sales due to better accuracy. The lessons learned by medieval armorers can also be paid forward to our fantasy and sci-fo armors, as well; the human body only articulates in certain ways, so the same problems facing modern body armor designers were faced hundreds, if not thousands of years ago. If you ever want to know where NASA and Playtex (yes, Playtex) firgured out how to make the Apollo moonsuits, it's a funny story. They basically used Henry VIII's parade armor as a template, replicating many of the attachments and styles but in modern form. Everything old is new again.
One more thing. Consider watching some HEMA videos on Youtube, or attending a HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) event. We train using actual medieval fighting manuals and the techniqeus used indicate a massive need for mobility and flexibility. Actually seeing modern "combat" armor in use (we use hard plastics, heavy cloth jackets akin to a medieval jupon, etc) can give a designer some insight into hwo the various parts actually have to move for rigging purposes. HEMA isn't LARP or fantasy , but as real as it can be made within the bounds of safety. A designer could really benefit from seeing how real armor, ancient and modern actually works and actually moves on the human frame.
Bob
Have to say, for the 2 original images, I just assumed the guy was wearing a cup underneath ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There is one modern sci-fi armor suit where there just isn't enough room for any male groin at all. The suit is fine from the waist up but the lack of real estate below the belt meanti just couldn't use it. It looks like the pelvic region was designed after a woman's groin. Very strange to have not enough space in the pelvic region.
Part of the problem that the male anatomical elements aren't part of the model too much fudging down there going on.
The fantasy being it is actually armour. :)
My ex would love to go back in time and murder whoever inveted 'em, before they did of course.
Sci-fi armour are designed to protect from energy based weapons and hence less reliant on heavy plates which would only protect from projectile or direct physical impact. The fabric would be required to deflect/neutralize the energy pulse rather than having to distribute the impact to a larger surface.
Yeah, but it makes for a great cutsie outfit without the weapons:
Boob armor is not very realistic at all, not to mention providing for a place for a weapon to catch and perform a mastectomy on the battlefield. It was especially rediculous when I had a nipple shape in supposedly rigid steel.
I was thinking of creating a breast armor shape morph and then applying the armor over that... is that feasible?
This one is my favorite for impracticality. At least her shins are protected... Actually I do like those boots, and no high heels!
Then again, I suppose it's working, as her intended victim is so distracted that he doesn't have his shield up.
I think when it comes to sci-fi there is no one style of armor but a variety of armors depending on the combat situation and the wealth of the owner.
I would like to see some more mechanized power armor type of armor fo the "heavy hitter" type characters personally. Bulky armor would be tough for even the strongest human to move in. So some mechanization would be needed.
As far as a realistic breast plate for women goes... I would love it. not everyone wants bare cleavage or feels breast shape trumps protective elements. There should be room for all types of clothing in the store not just those that show off cleavage.
The problem with that is AutoFollow. If you put a dummy parameter in the armour so that it didn't get an auto morph to match the one on the figure it would be usable at 100% but not at intermediate values, and it would allow mixing with other clothing which GeoGrafting wouldn't. I suspect both a morph and a GeoGraft have pros and cons.
In one Fantasy series of books David Eddings does have the armourer telling a young lady that making plate armour with a shape that more closely follows the feminine shape is not feasible, as it could only be done by hammering out the shape, which would mean that the metal over the prominent areas would be very thin and thus still give no actual protection, due to the thinness.
Just brush the armour on with gold leaf paper like they had to of on the woman's wrists and ankles.
Redid something from a while back, on the subject of women and armor.
(Ok, so lack of a helmet is unrealistic... buuut...)
She may lose her head, but at least she's (still) got guts . . .