I like World Travels Wagon... but it needed a few improvements.
Haslor
Posts: 408
I really like World Travels, it is a great wagon and the undercarriage can be separate from the top and use can use it as a base for any thing. But… it has a few issues.
- You can’t show the wagons turning.
- The pivot point on the Hitch is in the wrong place. (Notice the it is not connected to the wagon)
- The bottom doors, in the front, are too tall and they can be opened backwards.
- Presently The door come up to the armpits of V4. (As you can see on the original wagon in the middle.)
- And it is short… but then again most Caravans are not long.
So very- very early Monday Morning I deconstructed World Travels.
I painstakingly removed the four beams which make up the foundation of the Running Gear.
- I found a mesh error on the ends of the beams, so cleaned that up welded two ends together so the beam is one piece.
- Then I placed the new Beams back exactly where the old ones had been.
- This left me with the two axle assemblies and wheels.
- The Back axle assembly was fine, so I left it alone.
Now to add the steering.
- First I reduced the front wheel and axle by 20 percent in the Y and Z axis.
- Then I cloned the Front axel assembly and sliced off the clone the spring and it mounts. the I cloned one three supports and place it under it’s clone. Then carefully stitched the two piece together and made three of them and used those as the supports, above the smaller front wheels.
- I edited the pivot point on Hitch, so it pivoted at the connection point with the Front Axle assembly. Then faked a Steering ring with a Second Life Torus Ring.
- That fixed the Running Gear, so now for the House, I sent the whole thing back to Daz Studio and dropped the house on it, everything matched up just fine. (As I expected.)
So now to fix those doors:
- I reduce the Y axis of bottom doors to 87% and expand the Y axis of the upper doors to 117.6%. This makes the door hit V4 at the waist.
- I though of adding a shelf in the door, I thought that would be a nice touch.
- I did made a nice cushion prop for a driver to sit their bottom on.
The deconstruct and reconstruct the undercarriage, taught me some invaluable lessons. Repairing the beam mesh, which cause a hole in the mesh, so I had to repair. The splicing the front supports, massaging and repairing the mesh, to make the supports not only look smooth, but so they look as if they were part of the original Model.
On the to do list:
- Match up the old textures with the changes in the mesh, so it all works and looks right
- Create a complete undercarriage Figure, with parented props for the Hitch, Wheels (so you could have one off or spinning)
- Things to add: a Box bed or Flat bed (actually have the flatbed built), a Two Horse Hitch, and maybe a Hauling Harness with collar.
When I finish my reconstruction of World Travels, I can’t sell it or give it away, the original meshes aren’t mine.
What I will do Is give it back to Daz 3D and let them decide what to do with it. The Original model is a PC+ product.
Tell me what you think, cause I’m interested.
PS. And yes, I know I have a hovering horse in that last picture. But I thought that would nothing after the TWO Levitating Wagons.
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Comments
I would absolutely love it, if DAZ would use this as an Update. Good work!
Talk to Jack, but do remember
A:- This is more than 10 years old, was originally relelased July 2006
B:- This is a PC item, so only $1.99 for members
Nice work!
Drop me a PM and we can chat.. :)
A - Yes and a lot haa changed in eleven years; so Jack's Wagon could a coat of new paint. Because a good Prop is a good Prop.
I have been looking at the Gypsy Bow Top Carvans and Pot Wagons, (which use the same running gear).
B - The reason I was just going to hand it back to Daz3D and let them sort it out.
But I learned a lot from riping it apart and putting it back together. I think I have three or four hours in it at this time.
I did this due to my need of a good wagon for my story. I could mod- this wagon faster than building another wagon from scratch. Though I do have a start on a good Studebaker running gear or John Deere Grain wagon. The wheels are a bear,
The set below are from the Studebaker Running gear. The skein is the sleve bearing which predates roller bearings. The Hub is fashioned from the same wagon and is tappered inside to match the skein.
Oh getting that nice three degree tilt to the wheel while keeping the outer surface of the Rim flat and the Spokes at a perpendicular to the ground, was a Trick. It took me about five tries to get it right; Mainly because Hexagon makes you deadeye the turning point. some of the mistakes were laughable, the spoke sticking through one side and not connected to the other. But as you can see I did get it to work. Now I just have to Repeat the process for the back wheels.
Did that.
How industrious! I for one would love the update.
maybe we need an old PC+ item modding thread (all files only shared with DAZ of course) but renders and visuals like yours posted here.
When I did a kitbash of a wagon for a project, it took bits and pieces from about five different sources to get something which actually would turn. That's an issue with a lot of wagon models. Not all of them, but quite a lot of them.
I would love an update including IRAY materials.
Looks great!
:)
A few Responses
One of the reasons I decided to use this wagon was it was basically in pieces to begin with, so I only needed to deal with the Bed and the Axle assembly, everything else connects is parented to it.
When I put it back together, it will be a few less parts, as some will be bones and the others parented. I am also going to add a Morphing section in the middle which will allow you to lengthen the wagon without distorting the axle assemblies. so you can build your own box to put on top of it.
I do have an Iray version of the materials, that I could share with you.
I also have a more RDL friendly version, which doesn't Emit light. (Yeah the Poser version of the Materials Glows if you turn off all the lights and render it with 3Delight.)
Of course they are just material Presents and contain no assets. and they don't have a single apply button, because I've rearranged things (a while ago).
I'll find a place to put them, so people can pick them up.
I like putting new Clothes on old assets. I've done that a lot.
Like Traveler's Castle Ruins. it has a pretty extensive image library and I took them through something like Crazy Bump and crated Normal, Displacement, Specularity and Occlusion maps, so you can do PBR. Add to 'To Do List', get some photos of old knurly wooden planks, to use of the Grain wagon.
Last night I sorted out the original textures, and went with a simpler Steering Ring Support, reusing a resized beam.
I still have the other supports, but I felt there would be issue with such supports on a wagon.
I also looked at several real wagons like this and those cross members are not tall.
Well here it is, three more hours of my hard work.
The red top is my flat bed wagon deck.
At this point this is a collection fo parts, and I need to sort them out a little better, so it is not just a collection of parts.
There is also a minor error I need to fix, with the front wheels, and I want to add the skein to the axles
This gets better and better.
Okay so I finally got Hexagon's UV editor to behave and give me a UV projection I could actually edit.
My Reworked Undercarriage is now a Figure which I can hang parented props like Wheel, Breaks, hitches and the structures, like the Bow Top.
So the proof is in the renders so here is the first one.
A note about how difficult it was to place that on the new Undercarriage and the steps it took me.
Okay the Easy stuff is done and now I have the tedium of getting the UV sorted out so it all works with the Original Texture images, which I might throw through them Crazy Bump to get Normals Specularity and the rest, for a little PBR ability. Oh and all the material in the images are Iray.
So left on the To Do list:
Here is the second To Do List:
These are items that follow will work with both the new and old undercarriage. They are also all new and do not use any of the existing Mesh.
Tell me what you think so far
I think you are wonderful!! Tried similar but only using scaling ......sadly I have no modeling abilities in the computer which is frustrating cause I can model/scuplt in real life pretty good ..
but I always thought the gypsy wagons were too large to be 1 horse powered ......watching closely
Thank you, but I want to say, I'm reworking Jack Tomalin excellent wagon models, he did the design work. I'm more like a mechanic than artist, pulling the family wagon in for an upgrades, refinements, and a new coat of paint; and thinking up some logical additions. I'm just hoping you can all take advantage of them.
I am good at CAD work (which makes me a little Nutz about scale), so modeling hard surface things like Wagon Bed and house are kind of the same. I am almost worthless at soft body molding. But I like mixing Morphs.
As for the Gypsy Wagons, they are made very lightly, if you do a search for them on the web, you will see that. The modern versions take advantage of modern wheels, rubber tires and roller bearings, which reduced the drag on the pull. Also they may look big, but they are actually pretty tight inside. All that makes it pretty easy for a single horse plodding a long at a speed not much faster than most people walk.
Not much work this weekend, had other things to do, but I was able to work up a new Material for the Flat bed.
I think I got pretty close to the Original Color, but I'm still working on that.
I've started working on the expansion set, which will work with the original undercarriage of World Travels.
I am looking for a good image of a black Iron hinges.
I want to make the sides of the box Wagon Bed pivot down.
This looks really good and I use this wagon and would love to be able to animate with it.
Does anybody know if there Is there any way to tell when a product has an update in my product library?
Would this be an update or a new product?
Jack created the original work. As I have said, what I have done is to disassemble Jack's wagon and reassemble it, adding new abilities in the process. I am also reusing all of Jack's original textures images. World Travels is presently a PC+ product, so Daz 3D will have to agree, as well.
If I were to guess the new undercarriage would be a new product, which requires the original, so you could get the original texture images. The extras I've created and the rebuilt undercarriage, work with the original undercarriage and Bow Top. That said, the original materials will not be compatible with the new undercarriage and vise versa, due to my breaking the original UV's when I did the disassemble.
So I see this as a set of expansions, like Morphing Fantasy Dress' expansions.
So let’s say Daz 3D or Jack to stop that I can't do anything with the original mesh, what happens then?
From what I’ve learned, I could build a completely New Undercarriage, with none of Jack’s Mesh or Textures. The resulting New Undercarriage would still work with the original Bow Top and the new bodies would work with the old undercarriage. Again the Undercarriage would be a new product, which makes use of the parts from the Original, but does not modify them. That might only change the number of expansions. I could release a collection of prsets for the changes to the doors and Romany Charm.
One other sticky bit: I am doing this exclusively in Hexagon and DAZ Studio. I am learning about parts of both these programs. So at this point this will be a DAZ Studio product. If I need to transfer everything over to Poser and recreate materials into Poser format, I am going to need help with that. Or can DSON help with that? Never used it don’t know if it will.
When I built my kitbash, I used 3Djoji's Herse as the source of my undercarriage. It actually has a front assembly that turns. But a kitbash isn't a rebuild.
UV's.... Raise your hand if you have a love/Hate relations ship with UV Maps! I finally decided the best way will be to deal with each beam as separate Shader domain, which share a Material. I guess what I'm saying is the UV Mapping is taking time. Mainly because I want to reuse Jack's textures. So Between hair pulling sessions, crashes, Shader domains breaking (which happens when I welded this point to that point, so I could move them together) I decided to look at Boundless Journey. What I was really looking for was the Box on the back and adding something like it to World Travels.
So here are a few shots. This one is actually easier to convert. It does not have the Beam error of World Travels. so here are three fast renders of Boundless Journey with the new front wheels. below is the back of the gear wagon with the front wheels at 30 degree turn.
I just through of something which might save me from doing the a lot fo hair pulling...
Now that one I would really love to have. I did do an alternate texture fior that one
Lots of patience (at least for me). Great work! Lovely texture Chohole!
Great work Haslor. I clicked expecting (yet another) complaint thread and found a useful and well thought out modeling project. More of these would be great, even if the models never become available. At least the step-by-step descriptions inspire others to take the plunge. Kudo's too for your ethical style, giving credit where it's due.
That looks excellent!
Any chance of a tutorial in .pdf?
Excellent, I really like the detail work.
Thanks, I have been keeping the files, each step of the way, so I can repeat.
I could do a tutorial on stripping down a mesh; then rebuilding the mesh, correcting errors in the mesh, in the process. I could also talk about dealing with Hexagon UV editor. But I want to dig in to a few other things.
I have a few other suggestions, I could offer to new modelers.
Interesting project. I hope your journey forward will be free from bumps in the road so that it eventually may reach all the way to the DAZ store.
I snagged the originals almost as soon as I joined a year and a half ago. What you are doing looks awesome!
Yeah, it is a good model and Jack is good with scale.
Last night I fiddled with the Materials, and tried to figure out why parts of World Travels seems to GLOW in DAZ Studio.
For those who are wondering…. I just loaded World Travels into the Scene and rendered. You will notice that there are at least four different variations on the wood materials, but does it look like this in Poser? So I dusted off my seldom used copy of Poser, loaded the Model, and got this:
No, Glow… HUH! What gives. (BTW This why I have several versions of Poser, to find out what Poser is doing with Materials and other issues.)
So I dug into the Material tab and found the issue, it is the way Poser handles Specularity. Or maybe it was the way Poser 5 of 6 handled Specularity, when this model was released. A lot has changed in the last eleven years.
So Back in DAZ Studio, I fiddled a little with the Materials. I corrected the Specularity Color Image and Setting, and Strength, for the things that glowed. Then I found a few other inconsistencies in the Reflection Color, the image, and Reflection Strength; Ambient Color and Strength; and a few other settings. Once I was done fiddling, and had it cleaned up, I had a set of more consistent materials. Now, when render I get this:
A lot better and yes, as soon as I am finished making the texture icon and making sure the whole things works, and had Metadata, (Cause nothing leaves my desk without Metadata), I will drop the link off here. Is Wednesday afternoon good for everyone?
But I I wasn't finished, for I know 3Delight can do better, so See the next post:
Now… the previous post just corrected the Poser Materials for DAZ Studio. But those materials were made in 2006 and again a lot has changed.
3Delight can do better, so look what happens if tweak the Materials, make use of the various Lighting Models and other 3Delight abilities.
First, I sent the Original Textures maps through Crazy Bump and got Normal, Specularity, Displacement and Occlusion maps. Then I applied those to the materials and changed the Lighting Model so everything isn't plastic. (I hate Plastic) The metal is Metallic, the cloth is Matte, Glass is Glossy Plastic, and for the Wood I used the Skin Lighting Model, which helps bring out the warmth of the wood. After that, I did a little more tweaking on the settings, for consistancy, so each type of material is using the same basic settings. Here is a look at the back of the wagon.
Again the changes brought out the rich and warmer tones on the wood, the Metal on the Axles shows the surface rust and looks a little worn. same with the Brake. the Glass has more relection like it should. and the Normal and Bump maps give the wood a relief look that I realy like. Notice also the canvas looks more like canvas, due to more texture. Even the cushions look good.
These are all 3Delight Materials, so what does an Iray translation look like?
And the Back:
There was no tweaking here, I just applied the '!Iray Uber Base' to the already tweaked 3Delight materials. Again I like the warmer tone of the wood. Now if I could only find away to get the detail work off the Glass, I'd like to try applying that to a frosted Glass Shader and get more translusance from the inside.
Okay one other note here: these four images, were made using the Completed Undercarriage and the Bow Top superstructure rework. More about that in my next post.
Post Script here:
The Background here is Millennium Environment with Magic Falls, Expanded to 200%. For the 3Delight Renders I used DimensionTheroy's DAZ Dimension Lights 1.
For the Iray Render, I applied the Iray Uber Base to the Environment and for lighting I used Sun-Sky Only. I set Dome Orientation X = 30.00 (For the Tropic of Cancer) and 10 June 2015 at 14:00.
One other note about Millennium Enviornment. You can expand it to about 300% before it begins to look weird in a render, I've have used it to create a Three 1080p Monitor backdrop. My use of Millennium Enviornment and Magic Falls, kind of goes with my, You can make good use of Old Props and stuff theme here. (I toyed with calling this thread New Wagons for Old, (Stealing New Lamps for Old) I am sure you can think of a few others.