Which DAZ Genesis 8 M/F characters are the most realistic/beautiful?

Daywalker Designs

SnowPheonix said:

k410 said:

I don't have an answer to the question in the OP (btw, was that a trick question?), but this has been quite an informative and stimulating thread for me.  I'm glad I read through it early in my learning curve.

I think a feature that would enhance realism would be for models to have a chance of blinking or sneezing just as you press the Render button.

Also, I think Rashad Carter's posts are the most beautiful and realistic. ;-)

Yes, unfortunately those aren't going to do you any good if they just sit in his private collection and you never have a chance to own them...   But what Mr. Rashad did prove is that it's the qaulity of the character that gets the best end results... He may argue it but Garbage In/Garbage Out was exactly what he demonstrated and showed when he said that none of the characters met with his standards..  It's pointless to talk about characters that you can't buy.

Actually, the only thing he specifically said he found fault with on available figures was the skin texture maps, so he started making them himself.

k410

SnowPheonix said:

k410 said:

I don't have an answer to the question in the OP (btw, was that a trick question?), but this has been quite an informative and stimulating thread for me.  I'm glad I read through it early in my learning curve.

I think a feature that would enhance realism would be for models to have a chance of blinking or sneezing just as you press the Render button.

Also, I think Rashad Carter's posts are the most beautiful and realistic. ;-)

Yes, unfortunately those aren't going to do you any good if they just sit in his private collection and you never have a chance to own them...   But what Mr. Rashad did prove is that it's the qaulity of the character that gets the best end results... He may argue it but Garbage In/Garbage Out was exactly what he demonstrated and showed when he said that none of the characters met with his standards..  It's pointless to talk about characters that you can't buy.

I'd like to clarify that I was referring to Rashad's fine text.

takezo_3001

I'm still waiting for Lee 8 to come out...

bluejaunte

So let's do a little test. And I'm not gonna mention my own characters because I think it's kinda lame, avertising in disguise or something. Do you find any of these realisitic, beautiful, or both?

https://www.daz3d.com/uchenna-for-genesis-8-female

https://www.daz3d.com/lainey-for-victoria-8

https://www.daz3d.com/lydia-hd-for-victoria-7

Rashad Carter

Thanks guys for taking the time to read my misspelled dribblings!! I LOVE these deep discussions so its good to know that I am not alone!

 

bluejaunte said:

So let's do a little test. And I'm not gonna mention my own characters because I think it's kinda lame, avertising in disguise or something. Do you find any of these realisitic, beautiful, or both?

https://www.daz3d.com/uchenna-for-genesis-8-female

https://www.daz3d.com/lainey-for-victoria-8

https://www.daz3d.com/lydia-hd-for-victoria-7

Wonderful examples!

SnowPheonix

bluejaunte said:

So let's do a little test. And I'm not gonna mention my own characters because I think it's kinda lame, avertising in disguise or something. Do you find any of these realisitic, beautiful, or both?

https://www.daz3d.com/uchenna-for-genesis-8-female

https://www.daz3d.com/lainey-for-victoria-8

https://www.daz3d.com/lydia-hd-for-victoria-7

To bad you don't talk about your own ... I thought I already pointed out that Lyra HD for Genesis 8 was one of the favorites on DAZ's site that I own.  I also own Lainey for V8 that I bought as a result of a previous recommendation.. I love the morph for it and the skin is right up with the best for realism... My wife even said your character looked "Very realistic" while it was rendering for this test render.   Thanks for making a great looking character and I love how you made the make up a "LIE" option so I could use it on other characters.

It's possible you may have miscontrued me saying that I have not found "the best of the best" at this site as saying that I don't like any of the characters which is far from the truth...  I happen to already own 26 female Genesis 8 characters... so if I purchase any more.. I'm trying to make certain that they are the 'best of the best' since I have already have plenty of variety.

As to the other two... they look great although but I probably wouldn't buy them since I have been fooled too many times by great looking promotional renders and I'll wait until I see a couple of recommendations and a render using it...

bluejaunte

Why thanks for the compliment! Although admittedly a bit painful to look at it now, especially that hand fro up close. Looks almost as if you removed all bump/normal maps and the HD morph. If not then I guess I suck  Granted, a lot of CG breaks apart from that close.

In any case, I feel I moved ahead quite a bit since then so it's all good. Back to topic, if you feel Lyra and those other characters are realistic, what prompts you to say realistic characters are only in other stores? I guess I don't get that part then.

SnowPheonix

bluejaunte said:

Why thanks for the compliment! Although admittedly a bit painful to look at it now, especially that hand fro up close. Looks almost as if you removed all bump/normal maps and the HD morph. If not then I guess I suck  Granted, a lot of CG breaks apart from that close.

In any case, I feel I moved ahead quite a bit since then so it's all good. Back to topic, if you feel Lyra and those other characters are realistic, what prompts you to say realistic characters are only in other stores? I guess I don't get that part then.

I'm a firm believer that 'the best is yet to come' and if you don't have the best.. keep your eyes open for it.  I disagree with the crowds that say you can't achieve realism with what products are availible... Of course we can to varied degrees.  I like to include the closeup of the fingers because finger and toe prints are the most ignored detail and as you stated "CG breaks apart from that close".. Here you've come to the very reason why I talk so much about details for close in portraits... 

Most of the products availible have distance as a best friend...  It's why I'd love to see versions of characters that are made specifically for close ups ...  I would even happily pay a lot more for a character that had so much detail that it didn't 'break up'. 

A long time ago .. I use to talk with Male3Media who I think makes some of the most brilliant male characters I've seen and he complained that making the type of character that I want takes too much time and that those who do make such characters rarely see a profit that compensates them for the time put into it...  That kind of sucks for them (respect) because I would like to see you artist getting properly paid but that doesn't prevent me from still wanting the best of the best.

While I think there are many excellent options that I've happily bought from DAZ, for some reason... "the best of the best" always seems to pop up on other web sites like this example that I have already succesfully fooled friends with..  Maybe they were just being polite but I really like it.

To be honest.. I wouldn't mind using your product as a baselines and maybe you can tell me exactly how get the very most out of using it..  I wonder if you can make an even more realistic render using Lyra HD...   Maybe some tweeks I can do to get even more out of it... ???  What's this about bumps?

bluejaunte

Main issue in that render is an obscene amount of SSS. The whole nose glows red. SSS is a very important feature for rendering skin. It's when light enters the skin, scatters around and some is coming back out. Most prominently seen when someone's ears glow red with the sun behind them but it happens all over and is a big part of what makes skin look like skin. It's hard to get right, use too much and it looks waxy (wax actually does have a ton of SSS), use too little and it looks leathery and bump details look too harsh too. Bump or normal maps are used to get that fine detail that you crave, skin pores etc.  And then the third big thing is specularity. All these things fight each other, more bump results in less spec as the surface literally gets less smooth. Less SSS makes bump uglier which you then turn down only to get more spec that you didn't want. Then factor in wanting to zoom in as much as you do, once again the bump gets ugly, you'd have to lower it but... rinse repeat until you're insane.

With Sahel I've tuned these things probably more than a month. Like a month literally doing just that. It feels almost like cracking a damn code.

bluejaunte

But alas, here's your stupid closeup hand. Is that detailed enough for you 

bluejaunte

A soul... interesting aspect, hadn't thought about that.

IgnisSerpentus

PS bluejaunte... your skin looks great, btw. Awesome work!

SnowPheonix

bluejaunte said:

Main issue in that render is an obscene amount of SSS. The whole nose glows red. SSS is a very important feature for rendering skin. It's when light enters the skin, scatters around and some is coming back out. Most prominently seen when someone's ears glow red with the sun behind them but it happens all over and is a big part of what makes skin look like skin. It's hard to get right, use too much and it looks waxy (wax actually does have a ton of SSS), use too little and it looks leathery and bump details look too harsh too. Bump or normal maps are used to get that fine detail that you crave, skin pores etc.  And then the third big thing is specularity. All these things fight each other, more bump results in less spec as the surface literally gets less smooth. Less SSS makes bump uglier which you then turn down only to get more spec that you didn't want. Then factor in wanting to zoom in as much as you do, once again the bump gets ugly, you'd have to lower it but... rinse repeat until you're insane.

With Sahel I've tuned these things probably more than a month. Like a month literally doing just that. It feels almost like cracking a damn code.

Exactly... and when you put it up for sale.. no way can I pay you what you are worth for all that time... I have way too much respect for you to assume that I can.. so I hope that we can generate enough interest that by volume of sales it starts to represent that.. but I have to warn you .. like Hollywood, your up against a LOT of really great and talented artist.. It is exactly a 'code' and the fact that you are obsessing on it means that I can't wait to see whats coming.. If its as good as I think its going to be.. I think you should charge extra too.. Since its going to be HD out of the box... maybe you should think about UHD detailing that goes for more many... I'm thinking about how DAZ manages to get us twice selling the primary character first and then the HD morphs for it later.. the same should go for skin textures.

Look .. people keep suggesting that I make my own characters but that would be silly when there are several great professionals like you that I could never begin to compete with.. so the smart money is on patiently waiting for the 'masters' to crack the code and those of us who admire it.. patiently and respectfully wait.  With the preview you already gave us... I will definately being shelling out my cash.  #respect

About my picture .. I did an 'out of the box' render to be fair since I did the same for yours...  Lowering the SSS as you mentioned and making the standard 'studio' lightinng gives me even better results.

Oso3D

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Cris Palomino

We are locking the thread as the arguments seem to be getting circular and it seems everyone has expressed their opinions.