OT: are video camcorders for amateur use a thing of the past?
Hermit Crab
Posts: 852
Hi folks,
Away back in 2005 I bought a sony Camcorder which used mini-digital video tapes. I was excited about making and editing videos and thought of using it to capture the seasons outdoors and anything else that might be worth filming - holidays, etc.
I even bought a tripod to set up for 'still' scenes like waterfalls, etc. (hardly still, I know but with no panning and so on). It had an eye-piece viewfinder as well as a viewing screen. The zoom was a great feature and it had lots of 'camera features and settings' (said by a rank amateur !)
Well, the thing was put aside for a few years and I set about using it again last year but it broke-down beyond repair days after.
When I did some research online for a replacement I had the impression that the camcorder-type camera is a thing of the past - there was nothing ... ahem ... low-cost that seemed much good. People tell me that smart-phones are just as good. And a photographer I briefly spoke to said that ordinary digital cameras make good videos nowadays.
It's great that the old, mechanical tapes are done away with now but the impression I get is that there is no market for the traditional camcorder form-factor nowadays. None of the affordable ones have an eye-piece viewfinder and I think filming while looking at a fold-out screen has problems and consumes a lot of battery power. They are much lighter than before, however, and could be taken everywhere.
Everyone today, seems to be making high quality videos for You Tube. Are they really only using mobile phones?
What's the general picture (no pun intended)?
PS I'm not desperately in the market to buy something but it's a kind of wish-list item.
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Comments
Smartphones killed the camcorders for amateur low-cost use. Phone already have great image quality and allows to record at 1080p resolution provided you have enough SD card space. If you need something more than that, there are expensive professional cameras you can buy which allows you to reach 4K or 8K resolutions.
I recently discussed that with friends... Yeah, it seems so... I have a camcorder I got in 2005, I think the last time I used it was 2007... In 2006 I got a mid range non-SLR digital camera with video that beat most of the features on the camcorder and it was lighter.
I think the next step above a smartphone is a good DSLR with video.
Hey thanks. y3kman, for the instant and helpful reply. You know, I was always keen on pocket organisers such a the Palm and the Psion range (I'm going back a bit) and would have been over the moon with today's gadgets for entering data and images but I have somehow always had a terrible aversion to mobile phone advancements and have never wanted any kind of smartphone (which explains my ignorance, I guess). I'm the only guy in an airport or on a train not texting or whatever people do all the time.
I don't want to bother you with a string of questions but do these phones have zoom functions and allow depth of field to change while filming?
I did notice that active people such as cyclists and mountaineers are fitting cameras to record their adventures and that there seems to be a whole range to choose from. But the settings are basically fixed, I take it?
Thanks for any reply.
Thanks also to you, McGuyver.
Thinking about it, using a camcorder anywhere in public did make me feel conspicuous, they weren't too subtle. But not everyone in 2005 was editing video, I think, and I liked the idea of recording hikes and including shots in passing such as birds wading in a lake or whatever. Somehow using a phone doesn't seem to be the way to get well-considered shots. But the evidence is all around, I suppose, that people do.
I know a guy that does pro outdoor videos for companies and his youtube channels and this is his camera https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1283257-REG/panasonic_dmc_gh5_mirrorless_micro_four.html
Then there is the popular GoPro https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1078001-REG/gopro_chdhx_401_hero4_black_edition_adventure.html?ap=y&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIk4KelcDt2wIVhKDsCh2_SgoXEAYYASABEgL7WvD_BwE&smp=y
Thanks, FSMCDesigns, for going to the trouble of providing the link but, sadly, it is outwith my price-range. The GoPro, however is what I think skiers and others are using - I remember in my brief research which was actually about a year ago that these cameras came up often but I thought they were just for active use. I'll take a look at that range. Some aren't too expensive but they have a lot going for them.
These days between smart phones and digital cameras both of which can record video, having a dedicated video recording device is pretty pointless to be honest.
I think it's kind of a shame that they've gone the way of the Dodo. I rather liked the concept of video cameras.
Waxing nostalgic for a moment I remember back in the early '80s my other half and I lived in Orlando. We often went to Disney World and would see family men with those big full size cassette VHS cameras perched on their shoulders like cannons, with the mom and their two and-a-half kids walking ahead of him as convenient targets and proof of presence at the park. The boy would be lugging the bag of accessories and the others would be pointing excitedly at whatever, under the direction of the cannoneer.
I'd wanted one of those big beautiful mechanisms but could never justify the cost. Until one day in the late '80s or early '90s in Circuit City (remember Circuit City?) I spied a miniature video camera set. It was (I think) a JVC-SCF007 "SuperVHS" miniature video recorder with extra high quality recording onto the special, small, Super-VHS-C tape cassettes. The recorder was about 5x5x2 inches and attached to the recorder was a belt clip and at the end of a 4 foot cable was a tiny color camera about the size of a half of a half a pack of cigarettes. It was essentially an early version of a GoPro 25 years ago. The camera had a standard tripod screw socket and was intended to be mounted on sports helmets like for skiing or skydiving. When it first came out it was very expensive, but they didn't sell well and I picked it up for about half price at $700. It took marvelous images. Noticeably better than standard VHS. So we'd walk around Disney World with the recorder on my hip and the camera secreted in my hand surepticiously photographing things. When we'd pass somebody with one of those cannons on their shoulder I'd let them see my tiny camera and watch as they did a double take. Snicker, snicker.
I still have that recorder and it still works! The camera works too. However, the rechargeable battery is long dead and the detachable display screen doesn't work anymore but with the other cables I can send the image to an analog capable TV. It's nearly impossible to find SuperVHS-C tape cassettes anymore but that's OK. I don't need them because I still have a few unopened and I haven't recorded anything significant in 15 years. I have converted my video tapes to digital files and written them to DVDs. I've tried and tried but it's impossible to find the correct battery for it so I have to use the recorder on wall power unless I rig up some other battery situation. All the connectors for the power and other cables were absolutely non-standard and proprietary but I did buy every accessory that there was for that system, so I have all the cables. The whole thing came in a slimline attache case with foam cutouts for the camera, recorder, powersupply, detachable display, cables, lens filters. Sigh... an era gone by.
I just did a search on Newegg and they definitely have camcorders ranging from under $50 to a thousand or more. I think the cheapest ones are just simple digital cameras disguised to look like camcorders. The important thing is what features are you looking for? Hi-def or ultra hi-def? Also, some of those cheap CMOS cameras have poor image quality in dark lighting or they don't handle fast motion. So it's probably best to read the customer's reviews on whatever you're looking at.
But no, you're not crazy to want a video camera. Cellphones are convenient, but you can't really mount one on a tripod or connect external microphones to it. Plus I don't think any cell phones have optical zoom. If they do, its probably expensive. Anyway, any decent electronics site will have digital camcorders as well as digital cameras.
One of my older brothers had one while I was still in school to video tape his wife & kids & others for vacations or holidays and while he didn't video tape much I'm very thankful that he did because those recordings, since transferred to DVD, are not replaceable and are good memories.
I have a video camera on my iPhone, tablet, even a 2006 Panasonic Lumix camera I still use can do HD video although I've never taken video because I always forget it's there but it would be ideal for games & wildlife & such.
There's even a movie that was filmed with iphones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangerine_(film)
Don't know if there are others
the thing to have now is a GoPro and a drone
No need to go all the way up to DSLR, there are plenty of compact and bridge cameras that are good at video.
Well, I had to go to bed for the night and today I see lots of further replies! Thanks to all!
Greymouser69, I get your point, which supports my reason for the thread in the first place. But I did like havine a powerful optical zoom and a lot of adjustments for different lighting conditions. Without having one, I'm sure some of these are available in smart phones.
LeatherGryphon, I love your anecdotes and memories of the giant cameras. I remember some small event in a local park where a video camera club held one of the display tents. Someone at the event was in costume for whatever reason and happened to pass by. Immediately all the gigantic cameras were up on shoulders to follow this poor guy. No-one asked him to pose or stand by this background - their shots probably included each other! But I never grudge anyone their interests and hobbies and they were good enough to be there with their display.
Kitsumo, thanks for doing a search and the useful warnings about the cheaper results. When I was looking, I did go into an electronics store where a couple of video cameras were still on sale. They were very light and capable of very good quality pictures, stills as well as video. But they only allowed viewing through the LCD screen. They had wi-fi and touch-screen features - all things to consume the power that would have previously been needed for the mechanical tape-drives. I might still go back to see what today's offerings are like.
Nonesuch00, yes, video memories are good to come across years later. When I bought my camera, my mother was in her final years. The mountainous island of Arran is ten miles off the coast of Scotland and it was always visible whenever we went to the seaside from childhood on. I went there often for climbing but my mother said as she got older that she had seen it all her life but had never been there. For her eighty-fifth birthday I took her over and drove round the island in the car. We went to a castle with locally-famous gardens and I filmed the whole thing, from ferry crossing onwards. These and other images are now as important as memories - as long as they're not viewed too often and come to replace real memories.
Takeo.Kensei: Thanks for the link - I took a look and saw that a couple of apps were involved but it is testimony to the power of smartphone photography that this could have been done.
Very true, the3Digit, but it's bad enough that my boomerang never came back never mind my drone!
Thanks, Saldaz, for the advice. I followed the link at the bottom of your post. If that's your work then clearly you know what you want out of photography and have the skills. I can imagine some of the images being re-done in DAZ Studio, with the right props.
The only thing about the GoPro is it is permanently on wide angle so the edges are distorted.
I use four different cameras.
A DSLR, a Fuji compact, a JVC video camera, which is about the size of a smart phone, and a head cam :)
As they said
for consumers using a consumer level photo camera is a solid way to create HD (1920x1080) videos.
BUT
Two more things to consider:
- Overheating:
inform yourself how long you can shoot video consecutively with the specific model before the camera overheats.
Especially when shooting 4K some photo cameras last mere minutes shooting UHD video.
With prosumer level video camcorders overheating is a non issue becasue they were created to record videos for a long time.
If you are supposed to make interviews, record a performance, want to create a short film you may want a camera that can record for up to two hours without overheating.
- - -
- interchangeable lenses
The benefit of using a photo camera is that you will find affordable models that allow you to swap lenses.
example:
80mm for portraits, close ups of the actors
50 mm for medium distance actions
16 mm for wide type land scapes
Many consumer level camcorders do not allow you to swap lenses and you will have a very hard time creating images with low depth of field (blurry background)
- - -
That being said you still may want to choose a dedicated video camcorder for more regular video tasks:
- - -
Consumer level video camcorders with interchangeable lenses
There are a lot of different great brands out there.
Around 2011 I deceided to focus on the the Sony NEX E-mount system because that offers solutions for both photography and video recording.
You will find consumer to prosumer level photo cameras, video camcorders and even professional models.
There are different lenses created for APS-C and full frame sensors that all fit different e-mount cameras.
But image framing and supported camera features may differ.
You can even use other brand lenses with adaptors.
- - -
There are some affordable options out there if you want to just shoot HD (1920x1080).
An example of a video camcorder that was created with shooting HD video in mind and let's you swap leneses with the e-mount system:
Sony NEX-VG30
- - -
When you are interested in shooting 4K (3840x2160) for longer periods of time you may need to spend a lot more money...
Maybe you can find a used
Sony NEX-FS700
Such prosumer level video camcorders also allow you to record 240 frames per second for slow motion effects...
- - -
Depends on what I'm recording, I still use my Sony HD cam for events, I rarely ever use cell phone cam, due to functionality. I enjoy using my Sony camera to take pictures.
Well when I transferred my brother's old video tapes to DVD you'll need to edit the video and do DVD authoring to create the DVD. If you are lucky you still have a copy of Windows Movie Maker that was free for so many years you can use otherwise Sony Vegas or Adobe Premeire seem to be the most popular video editing tools.
There are free solutions though but I don't remember their name. One part is HandBrake for the video editing / conversion but I don't remember the DVD authoring part of the free solution.
To all who added further replies - Thanks!
I followed the links and suggestions given by everyone and carried out a little more research of my own.
I decided that, yes, the traditional camcorder is passing away for general family use or taken along to weddings and such. They do exist with results better than my old mini-DV machine could produce. I don't like the fact that pull-out screens are hard to use in bright conditions and none of the cheaper ones seem to have a viewfinder. I do like having a good zoom function. For one of my clips I had the full moon fill the whole screen and zoomed back to it being a small disc behind the (Spanish) rooftops, which I liked. The same could be done with sparrows having a dust bath - at first they are seen in detail close-up then the whole garden is shown with them being only little movements in the middle distance. Anyway I'm going on a bit here ...
@ Fishtales: your post is very helpful and I think you have a good set of cameras. The edge distortion of action cameras and their lack of zoom is a pity - but they do brilliantly what they are meant to do.
@ linvanchene: Your knowledgable and thoughtful advice is very helpful. I'd never have thought of overheating but my use of video is likely only to be a series of short clips at any time. But good to know. I appreciate all the other options of cameras with interchangeable lenses and your advice on the Sony systems you are using and looking at. Right now I'm at the cheaper end of the market, cost-wise, partly because I have to admit that I didn't use my previous camcorder as much as I could have. (As an aside, having a good camera on once-in-a-lifetime trips is a two-edged sword - the constant focussing and fiddling and pausing can be a distraction that might even irritate companions ... but I am wandering off the point - you are clearly considering the needs of those who are primarily in some place to shoot video and to do a great job of it.)
@ AJ2112. Thanks for the comment. With a choice I think I would do the same.
@ nonesuch00. Yes I have some video editing software. Editing is a mixture of being fun and being tedious at the same time. When it comes to output formats ... my brain turns into the former universe-conquering supercomputer slowly dying and saying things like 'Mary...had ...a... littelll ...lammmmmb....'
To cap off - in spite of everything I said, I do like this one:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/camcorder-reviews/olympus-stylus-tough-tg-tracker-review/#/1
It is available in a well-know camera retailer in the UK for £179 (237.68 US dollars approx.) I note the price because my link shows a higher cost.
Then I also like this normal digital camera which can shoot video and slow motion as well as take stills:
I'm giving a partial screenshot lest it looks like I'm advertising.
If I ever buy a new digital camera it will be the newest iteration of Sony's mirrorless fullframe Alpha line.
I'll need to take a look at that later, nonesuch00, but thanks for mentioning it. I didn't expect this thread to grow as it did but yes, referring to the title, camcorders (low-end) probably are a thing of the past!
It really all depends...I still use my Canon XL-H1 and my Canon XL2 for filmmaking. I have a Sony Prime and CD cameras I use for still photos. Low end cameras are still good for many things. Yes, phone cameras are getting more impressive, but the art of taking photos and telling stories still requires craft.
If you asked this question, chances are you are/were thinking about getting a low-ender. I say, go for it and use it as much as possible. Tell stories!
@ LeatherGryphon: Here is a battery specialist that Amazon UK used to get me a camcorder battery.
It is a German site. ('Suche' means search).
https://www.heib.de/
@ Derry's Work. Those Canon's must have been a significant investment and I'm glad you are still getting use out of them. No doubt the features are comfortable and 'second nature' to you now. When I bought mine, the 3 CCD cameras were very much better than my single CCD one.
Thanks also for the encouraging advice.
Thanks for the information. I'll check, but the problem in the past is that even when I find the correct battery ID number and part number, when it gets shipped to me, it's the wrong battery.
Wrong dimensions, wrong polarity, wrong connectors. Went through that cycle twice from two different suppliers. 
Either there is an error in the battery ID database or that particular battery was so proprietary that it never made it into the database or got superceeded by a different battery with the same numbers. But I'll check your source. Thanks.
Maybe I'm getting old, but when it comes to cameras and camcorders, I generally go by "The right tool for the right job" and "Jack of all trades, master of none." By which I mean that a smart phone is ok if you have nothing else with you and want a quick shot of something, but if you want to want to take pictures or video on a planned visit somewhere, you should use a dedicated camera or camcorder.
Although smart phones will take video at HD resolution, I believe that the lens is a major factor in quality. I do still have somewhere a VHS-C camcorder and my dad's Video-8 camcorder, both of which have LCD screens and a viewfinder. However, several years ago I bought a Sony CX115E. There is no viewfinder, but it's small size means that I don't mind keeping it in my camera bag or pocket when I go somewhere. The 25x zoom lens beats anything that a phone could take, with the addition of image stabilisation. It's getting a little old now, but still suits me fine since I don't have a display above 1920x1080. The big advantage over tape camcorders is of course the speed of transferring the footage to your computer.
Not sure why but I don't particularly like taking video footage with my digital cameras - maybe because it's much harder to keep them steady as you pan across a scene due to how you hold a camera compared to how you hold a camcorder (plus the weight comes into it when you're not using a tripod).
I'm also one of those people who finds it difficult and annoying to watch phone footage that has been taken in "portrait" mode - something you wouldn't see with camcorder footage.
To the OP - I would definitely recommend that you try out one of the new miniature camcorders. It doesn't take long to stop missing the viewfinder of older (or much more expensive) camcorders and there are a lot of advantages to having the newer technology.
About the only thing I can add other than nostalgia stories, is that about two years ago I got curious about the new "HD" digital camcorders and saw one in a drug store for under $50 and decided to try it. BIG MISTAKE. You get what you pay for. It was the crappiest piece of electronics I'd ever been assaulted by. The image wasn't clear, the image flickered, you might be able to film a well behaving bowl of fruit bathed in spotlights with it but forget trying to capture the movement of people or cars. It was just terrible. I've put it back in its box and am waiting until I find someone I despise badly enough to gift it to. Avoid those cheap, cheap toys!
I have a GoPro Hero on my motorcycle helmet. You can adjust the angle somewhat, enough to get rid of the distortion, by changing the resolution. 4K is the widest. I like it because when you fill the memory card, it erases the oldest five minutes at a time as it continues to record.
Well, this OT thread gave me great answers and all I needed, so I don't mean to bump it into prominence again.
But I mustn't ignore the last 3 posters for their input. You've restored the appeal of getting a little modern camcorder and I have good information regarding the 'action' equipment.
Thanks to DAZ/moderators also for permitting OT discussions. There are so many knowledgable people around here - I knew I'd get sound information.