more of 3 would be nice
Daz 3D Forums > General > The Commons>more of 3 would be nice
more of 3 would be nice
Diomede
Posts: 15,264
in The Commons
3 fingers that is
What do Mickey Mouse, Bugs Bunny, Fred Flintstone, Roger Rabbit, Bart Simpson, and George Jetson all have in common? A thumb and 3 fingers on each hand.
There are some great stylized and toon figures, so I am not bashing any of 3DUniverse's or Lady LittleFox's figures. Yay to those wonderful artists and others like them. However, even the toon figures for recent generations of Daz figures are over-endowed with fingers.
toon hands mickey.jpg
1280 x 720 - 315K
toon hands bugs.jpg
1280 x 600 - 161K
toon hands fred barney.jpg
1023 x 1022 - 90K
toon hands wilma.jpg
293 x 500 - 56K
toon hands bart 01.jpg
600 x 600 - 63K
oon hands mr.jpg
615 x 409 - 36K
ton hands roger rabbit.png
300 x 168 - 77K
toon hands george.jpg
477 x 268 - 22K
toon hands homer.jpg
920 x 584 - 48K
toon hands martian.jpg
1000 x 1200 - 92K
toon hands hong kong fuey.png
313 x 313 - 27K
toon hands family guy.jpg
748 x 411 - 43K
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Comments
It would appear that there is NOT an overwheming demand for Daz 3-fingered figures, despite the enormous popularity in current popular culture, and historically.
When you point your finger at someone, remember that you are pointing three fingers back at yourself.
One reason the three fingered model became popular is because it was easier to do in 2D animation. In 3D, this isn't an issue. At any rate, all your examples of "current" popular culture are decades old. Newer stuff, like Pixar, anime, etc. usually go for 5 fingers.
In particular, 3 fingers is easier because of the balance of line width and finger size; if you have four fingers the lines get crammed closer together or you have to make thinner lines.
Disney said 5 fingers made the fingers on the hand look like bannanas.
Diomede, I agree. Toons should be toons, If you want something realistic, then make it have everything encluding genitals. If you are making barbie dolls give them three fingers and three toes and make their eyes really huge, and make their skin and hair solid colors. I beleve that there should be a division of characters toon vs realistic and if they are toons don't try and make them realistic. I use both but toon characters are really fun to work with findings solid hair is not. Usually have to sculpt my own or use from other character I have. I like Hanna barbera cartoon characters. Too bad they are hard to find in 3d.
I'm not bashing fully articulated hands. There are many visual styles in animation. At the same time that Bugs Bunny had 3 fingers, Tex Avery's Red Hot Riding Hood had 4 fingers. It is all good. I have a scifi project for which I am using figures with fully articulated hands, but I also have a more whimsical project for which I intend to use characters with 3 fingers. In prepping for whimsy, I noticed that the 3-fingered folk are scarce among the newer Daz figures. It could be that society's tastes have changed and because of technology. Or, society can always have had a mixture of more realistic styles and less realistic styles, but Daz's customer base happens to prefer fully articulated hands. I believe the latter. Nothing wrong with that, I was just gauging if there is interest in the 3-fingered folk.
I am likely to make a 3-fingered morph (considering a couple of strategies to do so).
According to Ranker, here are the top animated shows. Notice the variety in visual styles. Sure, many are fully articulated, but there are plenty of intentionally unrealistic styles. I note that ranker does not include our lego friends - who just have hooks. In any case, very few are trying to look like The Incredibles 2.
Rick and Morty South Park Bob's Burgers Archer
The Simpsons Adventure Time Family Guy American Dad
Steven Universe SpongeBob SquarePants Robot Chicken Bojack Horseman
The Amazing World of Gumball The Venture Bros Star vs The Forces of Evil
We Bare Bears Voltron: Legendary Defender The Loud House Mike Tyson Mysteries
Squidbillies RWBY Milo Murphy's Law Pokemon XY
Clarence Teen Titans Go! Final Space My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic
Tales of Ladybug & Cat Noir OK K.O.! Let's Be Heroes
That assumes that you are pointing only with 1 finger. What if one uses two fingers to point?
Here I thought (from the title) the thread was going to be reference to Valandar's stacking discounts.
It would probably be possible to do a three-finger GeoGraft, though if the intent was to have it take maps for the regular four-fingers that would be "tricky".
Discussing options would be great.
- Geograft is a definitie option
- I was thinking of shrinking the ring finger to close to oblivion, flattening it, sliding the middle finger over, and widening the three fingers to be used.
Other thoughts?
I was thinking of merging the pinky with the ring finger, or merging the ring finger with the middle finger. Maybe just a geograft over the middle two fingers which hides them, and then a morph to widen the index and pinky? The texture for this is going to be an issue. But would you want a realistic texture for a 3 fingered toon? So it shouldn't have to work with existing textures. Bugs and Mickey are so nicely wearing gloves. Everyone else in the reference picture is a solid yellow or flesh tone.
Someone who is better than me at morphing will have much better ideas. Fun idea though.
The toon fingers only cause problems if you are trying to hand signal something but not in all
No they don't. I can't think of any Littlefox Toons with three fingers.
Admittedly, I'm not sure any of the Plushies have fingers at all.
Do geografts have bones of their own? If so, then just geograft a new 3-fingered hand where the forearm ends and make the original hand invisible.
I had a friend who lost two fingers and that was his favorite quote. He had a great sense of humor.
They shouldn't, with those names.
Japanese cartoon characters almost always have four fingers and a thumb. Depiction of less than the regular allotment of digits is considered an insult to the "burakumin", the folks who worked with death: undertakers, butchers, slaughterhouse workers, etc. If somebody lost a finger in feudal Japan, it was most likely to be a butcher. When the country became more industrialized, factory workers came under the same stigma, and it spread to construction workers.
This got to the point where burakumin were segregated in ghetos outside of towns, and as the caste system became more a part of Japanese culture, it was likely that the children of burakumin would also work burakumin jobs and live in burakumin ghetos. It's the same thing as what India called "untouchables".
So, the Japanese didn't buy into the whole western "too hard to draw" or "the fingers look like bananas" thing, they simply didn't want their characters seen as "lower caste". (the thing about it being a Yakuza sign is urban legend). The, as Japanese society acquired a western liturgesness, the burakumin and their descendents to five generations (I think it's five. Japanese law is complex) formed organizations like the Buraku Liberation League, struck back, and sued everyone who had four fingered characters.
For imported cartoons and games, they can't edit an entire cartoon or game, but they do edit the cover art, especially this friendly builder:
And the political implications of "the underachiever" with what is now considered a politically incorrect slight against the working classes is something you don't want to get into:
Since the games and cartoons themselves still have four fingers, a portion of sales legally has to go to an organization that represents the "burakumin". Disney reportedly pays $5M / year. (I'm trying to find a solid sorce).
i like it in 3s
Well, FWIW, real mice, rabbits, and dogs all have four toed front paws (this does not excuse the 4 fingered humans).
But mice, rabbits, and dogs don't have opposable thumbs, lol.
You included Hong Kong Phooey in your pictures. They upped his digits for the 2013 CGI movie.
Hong Kong Phooey gets four five.
This movie was cancelled, based on incredibly negative reactions to "leaked" footage.
One solution is to attempt to model and rig 3-fingered toons myself. I did have a go at that.
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I would explore morphing before geografts. Geografting will be a lot more work as you will have to model the hand, rig it and retexture the model with the grafts fitted. There are, I think, several three-fingered figures in the the DAZ shop where the third finger has been morphed away. RawArt's Troll Beast springs to mind.
I had a go at it using G3M in Blender. This is very crude as I only spent 15 mins on it, but I think you can see that it can work.
On the other hand (no pun intended) there was an early Genesis figure that used geografts: Cat Girl Genesis.
I know that the original puppet versions of Bob the Baumann & Feuerwehrmann Sami were much more interesting to me than the later digitized versions after they were likely bought by a big business. Bob had 3 fingers & Sam the regular 4 fingers in the originals.
I know one generation of DarioFish's creature morphs had a 3 finger morph
Edit - yep. the ones for Genesis. Didn't find that one in the Genesis 3 morphs, and I don't have any for Genesis 2
Two thumbs up, @Hiro Protagonist.
Here is a quick morph for Geness 8 Male (made in Carrara but that doesn't really matter). Like Hiro, this is just a test that I spent about 20 minutes on.
Even though these morph tests appear like very good starts, a geograft cap might still be useful to hide the stub of the axed finger.
Some of Sparky's M4 anthros have a 3 fingered hand. I remember GenXing her Rana figure to both Genesis1 and G2M. What I ended up with is the pinky shrunk down to just about nothing and a small imperfection at the base. The rest of the fingers were farther apart than typical, since the palm wasn't narrowed. In any case, what little issues there were were easily handled by making what little was left of the pinky invisible and a tiny bit of postwork on the render.
Here is the hand that I got in the original rendered .png, no postwork.
Also, keep in mind that a lot of the 3-fingered Toons date from the ball-and-hosepipe era of animation, and what you've got isn't 3-fingered hands, but 3-fingered gloves.
I remember Dariofish making a 3-finger, 1-thumb morph for Genesis 1 that was released in Rendo as a freebie for a survey. Unfortunately, due to a crash way back when, I wasn't able to move it to my backups and cannot find it anywhere on that other site.
The big problem with a morph is that OTHER morphs will cause problems. Geografts can also get a bit weird when used with morphs they weren't designed for, but you don't get weird inside out fingers sprouting.
Yeah, really good point. Besides the seeming disinterest among the mainstream of the Daz community, compatibility probably contributes to the lack of support for this particular style of animated figures. Of course, for a morph for my own use or to share as a freebie, I don't really have to worry about compatibility too much.