Making hair look like it's on fire! Need advice.

Malix

Hi! I could use any advice to try to make hair look like it's on fire and maybe also have a glow, look up "fire genasi" and you'll get the idea. The hair is https://www.daz3d.com/ellisea-hair-for-genesis-3--8-females so like fire coming off of it. Also, trying to avoid iray, though that advice would be welcome as well. Thank you!

Misselthwaite

Something like this?  I don't have the hair you have, but this was sort of short... anyway, this is just the IPR, AoA ambient lighting and a skydome.  I used Blues hair, used the LIE to toss a flame texture from someone over and turned up the ambient and the opacity down.  The extra flames were actually from a brazier, but you could use whatever flame prop you had handy.  You could easily add a little extra flame in postwork, if you wanted.

Misselthwaite

Had to poke at it again: night sky for better contrast.  Added a small, tight spotlight with a flame image as a gobo above the hair, which neither gives or receives shadows which I forgot to say before, so the spotlight can 'reach' the face.I left the shadows on the added flames (which are from the Balneae set). 

Malix

I wish you had instructions on how to do this, this is awesome!

Misselthwaite

It wasn't hard, honest, but it did re-use textures from some other random places.  I don't know what you have, so I don't know how useful my instructions would be :-)  I'll give it a go, and hope it helps.

For the main hair (which used the Ubersurface shader), I kept all the textures the way it was on the set I had (redheaded, of course), and used the LIE to add a flame texture (the flame texture from the Opus Magus set) overtop (I had to flip it, because the colours were running the wrong way) and set the blend mode to additive.  This will depend on the diffuse map for the hair you are using - mine used the same map for all the hair layers, yours may not. I reduced all the opacity of the hair layers to 60%.   I added the same flame image into the ambient channel at 90%.  I turned off all the specularity.  I turned the 'Accept Shadows' to off, and in Parameters I turned off the Cast Shadows.

The added flames could be probably from any set, but I used the Balneae set because it's actually an intersecting set of planes, so it gives a more 'rounded' flame appearance, and just positioned several copies at different scaled sizes in nice places.

I added a spotlight (Age of Armor) just above her head, and in the Gobo channel I put the same flame texture.  Made the spotlight very tight on her head, and only about 25% power. 

Now I've saved it, because I have a sudden urge to make a flame-sprite or something. :-)  I have also used a flame texture on Esidor hair for additional flames (because that hair directs upwards naturally, and has lots of lovely morphs), so if you had a hair set like that you could turn it into flames, too, if you didn't have a flame prop you liked the look of.

I guess that's my kitbash of the night... I hope that helped you on the path to creating something like what you wanted!

jedijudd

Prae on Rendo has a couple of hairs like that called flame hair and spark hair

Sven Dullah

Misselthwaite said:

Had to poke at it again: night sky for better contrast.  Added a small, tight spotlight with a flame image as a gobo above the hair, which neither gives or receives shadows which I forgot to say before, so the spotlight can 'reach' the face.I left the shadows on the added flames (which are from the Balneae set). 

Hehe, cool stuff!

Malix

jedijudd said:

Prae on Rendo has a couple of hairs like that called flame hair and spark hair

I'm going for a specific look, but thank you.

Pixel8ted

I can't actually recommend this because I don't have it and have never used it but for 3dL there is PW effect. All said and done it might be the easiest solution for 3DL.

  https://www.daz3d.com/pweffect

If you used IRAY, I'd say it would be worth checking if an emissive shader might work as at least a starting point but you say that's a no so maybe post work if you have an Image Editor like Photoshop or Gimp. I use Photoshop so my examples are Photoshop but could be adapted to another image editor or paint program.

Here are a handful of post work options:

Option 1: Flame brushes and layer styles. (Use flame brush paint...one by one using transform distort to size, place, and distort flame to hair as desired. Apply fire/particle layer style or alternately gradient map each flame with a fire gradient. Do this in several layers so readjust as desired.) In my example, I also did a black outline around hair in front of face using black, blurred it a littel and lowered the opacity to give a shadow effect between hairline and face.

Example 1: Brushes used: Ron's Flames. Layer Styles: Ron's Particles (Ron's Particle Glow Styles.) I think PS and PS Elements has a default glow style that would work okay.

Option 2: Gradient mapping and flame PNGS. (Gradient map the hair using a fire gradient. Add Flame PNG files; use transform tool to size, place, and distort flame to desired position and shape. You can also mask out areas of flames in PNGS that are undesired. You might even use the liquify filter if you have Photoshop to distort flames. Clone stamp if desired to fill in areas or coverup something you don't like.)  ****Note if you haven't rendered the image already you can most likely skip the gradient step by selecting a flame colored hair shader or color option.

Example 2: Fire PNGs used: Ron's Explosions (Fire). Gradient: Photoshop 7 Wow! (Wow Gradient 33) It's black/red/orange/yellow/white with a blended falloff...so if roll your own make the stop soft not sharp. These are the set of 4 images. 1. Pure Render. 2. Gradient map applied. 3. Fire PNGS Applied to head. 4. Clone Tool used.  BTW, I add the gradient map before the flames so I don't have to wory about coverage if there are gaps in flames. NOTE: Instead of gradient mapping if you plan ahead you could most likely skip this step by using a flame colored hair shader or color option. I gave the gradient step because this image is pre rendered so the hair coloring was already done and I did not want to do this example from scratch. 

Option 3: Smudge Tool and gradient mapping. (Grab the smudge tool and create your own flames. Play with your smudge tool settings to get desired push/pull flow.  A tablet with a pen stylus is a definite plus for this option. Apply a fire gradient to final smudge hair result. NOTE: Gradient mapping could be replaced by using flame colored hair shader or color option. If you do this route instead of gradient mapping, you'll probably have to add some yellow paint in while smudging to get the flame color variation.

Another posible option would be using the dodge and burn tools to get the glowing hair effect. This probably good if you want it to appear lit from within.

I threw together a couple of examples on a test render I ran playing with wind force using the dforce Void Suit-X.  I was also playing with suit and robes surfaces. :)

These are just quickly thrown together to give some post processing ideas. I would do maybe some render<lighting effects along with a few minor details to make the hair and figure blend more cohensively. For example, the hairline shadow and hairline edges on the first brushes/layer styles could be better. :)  Edit: I'd start with a firey warm lighting to start. Since you are planning on using 3DL, I'd recommend the firey genesis lighting set up which is one of the sets that comes with DAZ Studio.

 

 

 

Pixel8ted

Lights Panel<Presets< LIGHT Firey Genesis. 

Rendering with this preset will be a good 3DL render start because it will give you a good starting point whether you elect to try to render some flame inside DAZ Studio or do post work.

Kinich

It's often overlooked but you can make emmissive surfaces in 3DL, you have to use Omnifreeker's UberAreaLight shader, which comes built in, it should be in your default Daz directory (My DAZ 3D Library) under Light Presets/omnifreaker/Uber AreaLight.

The very quick sample below shows what it can do, the only light source in the image is the hair itself, make sure you turn the ambience on after applying the shader and then tweak the 'Light' settings in the surface settings, it does impact on render times, especially if you turn the 'Samples' up which you will want to do to get a smooth light. The shader also has fall-off settings in the Light section so you can simulate the drop off in light as it gets further from the source. You'll have to play around to get the best results, but bear in mind that if you put images in the light colour settings and/or up the Samples the render times will increase.

Sven Dullah

Kinich said:

It's often overlooked but you can make emmissive surfaces in 3DL, you have to use Omnifreeke'rs UberAreaLight shader, which comes built in, it should be in your default Daz directory (My DAZ 3D Library) under Light Presets/omnifreaker/Uber AreaLight.

The very quick sample below shows what it can do, the only light source in the image is the hair itself, make sure you turn the ambience on after applying the shader and then tweak the 'Light' settings in the surface settings, it does impact on render times, especially if you turn the 'Samples' up which you will want to do to get a smooth light. The shader also has fall-off settings in the Light section so you can simulate the drop off in light as it gets further from the source. You'll have to play around to get the best results, but bear in mind that if you put images in the light colour settings and/or up the Samples the render times will increase.

Yup! Light intensity may need to be cranked up to 1000+ also. And the arealight will render faster with progressive enabled in the render settings tab, use it if speed is important;)

Lothar Weber

Maybe with iray emission and oot settings like this:

EDIT:: sorry, you mean NO Iray...

Visit my Gallery and comment if you like ;-)

 

BeeMKay

Doing this in Iray (as you also asked for that) is pretty simple. You just turn use the reddish hair versions that come with the set (I used the red-black one for hair 1 and the red one for hair 2). Then I put that hair map into the emissive slot of Iray, changed the colour to reddish/orange, and cranked up the light to k/cd². In the render settings, I turned on the bloom filter. It's working best if you have "scene only", and you probably have to add some hightights in postwork to make it look like real flames, and there's plenty of room for experimentation.

Here's the settings for bloom, with the hair using the map on white base emission colour.

Here's the changes in the emission slot, using the reddish/orangish colours.

Here's a slightly different bloom setting that gives off a bit more of a glow effect:

Misselthwaite

Kinich said:

It's often overlooked but you can make emmissive surfaces in 3DL, you have to use Omnifreeker's UberAreaLight shader, which comes built in, it should be in your default Daz directory (My DAZ 3D Library) under Light Presets/omnifreaker/Uber AreaLight.

The very quick sample below shows what it can do, the only light source in the image is the hair itself, make sure you turn the ambience on after applying the shader and then tweak the 'Light' settings in the surface settings, it does impact on render times, especially if you turn the 'Samples' up which you will want to do to get a smooth light. The shader also has fall-off settings in the Light section so you can simulate the drop off in light as it gets further from the source. You'll have to play around to get the best results, but bear in mind that if you put images in the light colour settings and/or up the Samples the render times will increase.

I haven't been able to do an emissive surface for several Daz releases.  It doesn't show up in either Smart Content, Lights, Shaders, or even Product lists.  I actually found it once in my files and turned it into a product on my own, and after the first time all it gives me is a little red square in the corner of the icon, and nothing to select. Half the time, it didn't matter how high I turned it up, it just didn't generate any light, so I stopped trying :-(

 

So I went and found it again (had to go into the library menus...) and got it to work.  :-P  Why won't it show up when I need it???

Malix

Iray was easy, I just wish my computer could handle multiple characters or I'd just stick to Iray! Thanks for the help! Now to learn how to use the LIE!

Richard Haseltine

Misselthwaite said:

Kinich said:

It's often overlooked but you can make emmissive surfaces in 3DL, you have to use Omnifreeker's UberAreaLight shader, which comes built in, it should be in your default Daz directory (My DAZ 3D Library) under Light Presets/omnifreaker/Uber AreaLight.

The very quick sample below shows what it can do, the only light source in the image is the hair itself, make sure you turn the ambience on after applying the shader and then tweak the 'Light' settings in the surface settings, it does impact on render times, especially if you turn the 'Samples' up which you will want to do to get a smooth light. The shader also has fall-off settings in the Light section so you can simulate the drop off in light as it gets further from the source. You'll have to play around to get the best results, but bear in mind that if you put images in the light colour settings and/or up the Samples the render times will increase.

I haven't been able to do an emissive surface for several Daz releases.  It doesn't show up in either Smart Content, Lights, Shaders, or even Product lists.  I actually found it once in my files and turned it into a product on my own, and after the first time all it gives me is a little red square in the corner of the icon, and nothing to select. Half the time, it didn't matter how high I turned it up, it just didn't generate any light, so I stopped trying :-(

 

So I went and found it again (had to go into the library menus...) and got it to work.  :-P  Why won't it show up when I need it???

You had at least one object selected, and at least one surface on a selected object selected?

You can set a surface to be emissive maually, as long as it is using the Iray Uber Base Shader, in the Editor tab of Surfaces - just given it a non-black Emission Colour; the advantage of the shader preset is that it zeroes other stuff, which should speed rendering.

Misselthwaite

Richard Haseltine said:

Misselthwaite said:

 

You had at least one object selected, and at least one surface on a selected object selected?

You can set a surface to be emissive maually, as long as it is using the Iray Uber Base Shader, in the Editor tab of Surfaces - just given it a non-black Emission Colour; the advantage of the shader preset is that it zeroes other stuff, which should speed rendering.

Oh, yes, I know how it works :-).  I just can't find the blasted UberArea shader without going into the content library and digging through a variety of subdirectories.  However, I am not using Iray - I only use 3Delight! 

Richard Haseltine

Oh, sorry - I didn't realise that.

Misselthwaite

Richard Haseltine said:

Oh, sorry - I didn't realise that.

And it was lovely of you to try and help me in my impotent frustration :-)

dracorn

I started with the texture and opacity maps from Marshian's Hot Metal Shaders and some Photoshop manipulation to create a new texture for Pascale Hair to achieve a multicolored flame effect.  I also applied the texture over M8's right hand (and had to do the fingernails individually to match).  

https://www.daz3d.com/hot-metal-shaders

https://www.daz3d.com/pascale-hair-for-genesis-3-8-female-s

fred9803

Not sure if you need a "hair on fire" or a "hair made of fire". I combined both Kramer and Father Jack.

Sven Dullah

fred9803 said:

Not sure if you need a "hair on fire" or a "hair made of fire". I combined both Kramer and Father Jack.

 

I love that, nice work

Keep'em comin folks, very interesting to see all the different approaches

mwokee

Are you decent with Photoshop? Deviney has "Ron's Flames" which is a set of brushes. I'm not at home otherwise I'd try a creating a demo.

Misselthwaite

No postwork, 3Delight render. 

sapat

Pixel8ted said:

I can't actually recommend this because I don't have it and have never used it but for 3dL there is PW effect. All said and done it might be the easiest solution for 3DL.

  https://www.daz3d.com/pweffect

If you used IRAY, I'd say it would be worth checking if an emissive shader might work as at least a starting point but you say that's a no so maybe post work if you have an Image Editor like Photoshop or Gimp. I use Photoshop so my examples are Photoshop but could be adapted to another image editor or paint program.

Here are a handful of post work options:

Option 1: Flame brushes and layer styles. (Use flame brush paint...one by one using transform distort to size, place, and distort flame to hair as desired. Apply fire/particle layer style or alternately gradient map each flame with a fire gradient. Do this in several layers so readjust as desired.) In my example, I also did a black outline around hair in front of face using black, blurred it a littel and lowered the opacity to give a shadow effect between hairline and face.

Example 1: Brushes used: Ron's Flames. Layer Styles: Ron's Particles (Ron's Particle Glow Styles.) I think PS and PS Elements has a default glow style that would work okay.

Option 2: Gradient mapping and flame PNGS. (Gradient map the hair using a fire gradient. Add Flame PNG files; use transform tool to size, place, and distort flame to desired position and shape. You can also mask out areas of flames in PNGS that are undesired. You might even use the liquify filter if you have Photoshop to distort flames. Clone stamp if desired to fill in areas or coverup something you don't like.)  ****Note if you haven't rendered the image already you can most likely skip the gradient step by selecting a flame colored hair shader or color option.

Example 2: Fire PNGs used: Ron's Explosions (Fire). Gradient: Photoshop 7 Wow! (Wow Gradient 33) It's black/red/orange/yellow/white with a blended falloff...so if roll your own make the stop soft not sharp. These are the set of 4 images. 1. Pure Render. 2. Gradient map applied. 3. Fire PNGS Applied to head. 4. Clone Tool used.  BTW, I add the gradient map before the flames so I don't have to wory about coverage if there are gaps in flames. NOTE: Instead of gradient mapping if you plan ahead you could most likely skip this step by using a flame colored hair shader or color option. I gave the gradient step because this image is pre rendered so the hair coloring was already done and I did not want to do this example from scratch. 

Option 3: Smudge Tool and gradient mapping. (Grab the smudge tool and create your own flames. Play with your smudge tool settings to get desired push/pull flow.  A tablet with a pen stylus is a definite plus for this option. Apply a fire gradient to final smudge hair result. NOTE: Gradient mapping could be replaced by using flame colored hair shader or color option. If you do this route instead of gradient mapping, you'll probably have to add some yellow paint in while smudging to get the flame color variation.

Another posible option would be using the dodge and burn tools to get the glowing hair effect. This probably good if you want it to appear lit from within.

I threw together a couple of examples on a test render I ran playing with wind force using the dforce Void Suit-X.  I was also playing with suit and robes surfaces. :)

These are just quickly thrown together to give some post processing ideas. I would do maybe some render<lighting effects along with a few minor details to make the hair and figure blend more cohensively. For example, the hairline shadow and hairline edges on the first brushes/layer styles could be better. :)  Edit: I'd start with a firey warm lighting to start. Since you are planning on using 3DL, I'd recommend the firey genesis lighting set up which is one of the sets that comes with DAZ Studio.

 

Wow, those are all really cool and well done!  Thanks so much for the different options. I've bookmarked the page. I'm glad you said Photoshop 7, because I only have PSCS2 and have never been able to upgrade.  Nice to know there's still hope for ppl like me!! 

mwokee

OK... here's an example using Ron's Flames Photoshop brushes . I like what the others did better but it also depends on what your final image needs to be.

Pixel8ted

Malix said:

Wow, those are all really cool and well done!  Thanks so much for the different options. I've bookmarked the page. I'm glad you said Photoshop 7, because I only have PSCS2 and have never been able to upgrade.  Nice to know there's still hope for ppl like me!! 

Spat.

Thanks. I'm actually using PSCS5 but everything I did will work with PSCS2. Brushes will all work as CS through CS5 have the same brush engine. We just have to stay clear of brushes that say they are for PSCS6 and CC.  If you happen to have one of these three books: "Adobe Photoshop Elements 2: Once Click Wow!"; "The Photoshop 7 Wow! Book", or "How to Wow: Photoshop for the Web", you'll find the fire gradient preset I used on the CD-ROM included with the book. 

Correction on that gradient...the white is actually a pale yellow.