why is genesis 8 considered better than genesis 3?
Mistara
Posts: 38,675
why is genesis 8 considered better than genesis 3?
beyond the obvious, eyelashes and eyebrows. lower polly count
what is the verdict on the separate eyelashes and eyebrows? useful?
is animating 8 easier than 3?
functionally, what is the benefit?
i was slow to start buying content for 8, ended up spending more than i expected.
i kinda feel like the g8 life cycle might be winding down, expecting every day for news of genesis 9, unless they skip to genesis X 
nothing wrong with skipping a generation number.
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There's been a trend towards A-pose for figure creation for some time; T-pose is mostly a hang-up from really quite old games.
The A pose creates a more natural shoulder shape when creating the model, and also less distortion when used in some co-ordinate systems. That's less serious in Daz where you have the capacity to create JCMs that can compensate, but still, while it creates a bit of a head-ache with using older assets, it's a positive from the perspective of going forwards.
Still, personally, the main reasons I've transferred several of my favourite G3 characters up to G8 are mostly the HD expressions (I often find G3's facial expressions a bit plasticy) and the fact that it's simply newer - a lot of the tools that the vendors are creating are just more refined in the G8 versions.
thanks. yeah, "A" pose is significant
g3 can be baked into an A pose.
Every generation has seen improvements. Whether they are 'significant' to someone is a matter of opinion, but the technology has slowly gotten better and better.
With Genesis -> Genesis 2, and Genesis 2 -> Genesis 3, I was very grumpy like most customers and tried to dig my heels in. Then I'd see more and more reasons to start using the newer stuff... and realize it was for the best.
With Genesis 8 I shrugged and figured that it'd be like every other time and to get over myself. And I saved myself some grumping. ;)
It's slightly better, but not so much better to completely write-off your Genesis 3 figures, nor Genesis 3 assets. The conversion tools for figures and assets between the two generations are also good enough to regard them as one single generation in their use, giving a selection of assets unlike any figures before. To me, it makes no difference whether a figure is G3 or G8, I just pick whatever assets of the two generations I want, figure out which generation would be easiest to convert to, and go from there.
I think that's a fair assessment; the differences might not be massive, but they are there; I can't look at any of the new features for G8 and honestly say that they're a step back.
There's potential arguments to be had about things like the unimesh of earlier generations allowing fluid androgyny (theoretically, anyway... how well it works in practice is another matter) and the fact that the figures now have fewer material zones than the earlier generations (which a lot of people liked to use for clothing textures). Still, those aren't things that are in contention when it comes to G8 versus G3; the new pose is the only thing where there's been much, if any, trade-off as far as the pros and cons of the improvement. (Although to the end user, it might seem skewed towards "con", as the advantages are somewhat invisible to them).
I basically do the same.
DAZ_Steve has explicitly said that Genesis 9 will not happen in 2019.
Indeed.
2019 almost over,2 months and a week
January 1, 2020! Genesis 9!
(yes i'm joking)
((but cooooould be!))
V8 17 Jun, 2017 is when i bought her
V7 9 Mar, 2016
V6 15 Feb, 2014
It is massive. Genesis 8 supports all Genesis items. Autofit is excellent. I usually use older Genesis most of the time due to my content budget but for realistic render Genesis 8 is better than all other Genesis.
I thought it was all this stuff
https://www.daz3d.com/genesis8
I haven't really noticed anything big ( except A -pose ) between G3 and G8, and for normal end user that means very little. If Daz would have updated power pose and HD expressions for G3, I'd see no reason to upgrade to G8. As far as I know, those are not really G8 specific, since G3 and G8 face rig is almost the same, so those could have been made for G3 too. I do hope next generation actually brings something new to the table, but to be honest, G8 is already pretty good, so in my opinion something like soft body dynamics is required to significantly improve it more....well, but I've been wrong before, so time will tell.
Nothing to do with the bases themselves, but G8 finally started giving us some official mature and elderly bases to work with insstead of having to cobble them together from 20-30 somethings with Zev0's Aging morphs. That was well worth investing in from my standpoint.
G3 gave us a lot of pretty people from various ethnicities (including some new ones). And some very useful Toon morphs from PAs. The longer development cycle for G8 has brought us a lot more diversity in character type.
...If you are on a limited budget, adopting a new figure line can be a make or break situation as you need a repurchase number of basic add ons and utilities to actually make it useful. I didn't see G8 as being that significant an upgrade as G3 was to G2 (basically due to the change in weight mapping used and improved bending) to warrant incurring all the expense all over again for the following:
• Basic Head Morphs.
• Basic Body Morphs.
• Basic Expression morphs.
• Various Merchant Morph and Shape Resources.
• Growing Up Morphs.
• Skin Builder.Pro
• Custom hair texturing utility (eg. Slosh's UHT shaders)
• Character morph content that is used as a base..
• A means to transfer older generation mophs /shapes (which at the time G8 was introduced appeared would never be updated).
• Basic Pose content.
• Pose conversion scripts.
• Clothing conversion scripts.(due to the change in default load pose).
Basically, to make G8 as useful as G3 currently is would require all the above which can be can be quite a significant setback when you are counting pennies month to month.
This also doesn't take into account any new content for the new figure such as clothing, hair, & props.
Next with all this constant updating there is the question of where to draw the line on character development and design for say, a story, graphic novel, or animation? It seems that just when I get what you want using say "G-x," "G-y" comes along and it's back to square one.
Better expressions and all these morph kits (that is, PA support) make Genesis 8 a much better experience for me. I still use Genesis 3 as well, and the other day I noticed how flat the lip edges of a G3M looked, but there's no lip detail/crease morph for G3M. Of course, once Zev0 releases his morph converter (after my clothing/hair converter experiences, I decided to wait on his version), then G3M will be in better shape. But I'm thinking Daz will have to do something really gamechangingly spectacular with Genesis X before I adopt it.
Or maybe they could just release a feminine Victoria and a masculine Michael---instead of the reverse---and that might be my tipping point.
Yep, the perrenial complaint. There's so much content for G8 now, in both major stores, that it is approaching V4 saturation levels. Mostly for G8F though so I compromised and only moved to G8F but my males remain G3.
Today ZevO has just launched Skin Folds & Creases HD. Add the entire plugins pletora. When will a theoretical Genesis 9 reach the levels Genensis 8 is reaching? If you consider that G8 does combo with G3, the resources that are already available to create works are spectacular. You are a PA and may know something that the rest does not know. But it will be very difficult for most people to be able or worthwhile to make the leap to Genesis 9 in 2020. Even more, it is that many of the features that everyone expects have more to do with the application than with the figure. As you can see, G8 still has a long way to go in all aspects. It depends on the APs. Even if some APs could update G3 expressions to levels close to G8, much of G3's content would sell better. Here Zev0 stands out with its launches that includes the two platforms G8 and G3 and does not forget people who still work with G3. Will G9 offer what is already in G8 as a series? DAZ is the one who really knows the dates of the appearance of Genesis 9, but within the speculation, I personally find it difficult for G9 to appear before 2021.
Whether the changes to G8 could have been integrated into G3, I can't judge. I like a lot about G8 better (after the 'Joker Mouth' phase was over
): The facial expressions have improved, the UVs are generally usable again, posing has become easier, and Autofit is enormously improved. The 'A' pose is good for the arms; the legs and feet could have stayed well in the previous position, which was much better than the current one.
It looks as if XY has shot itself a bit into the foot with the short cycles between G1, G2 and G3. It worked quite well at first, but now customers are tired of being asked to pay for the same basic equipment every two years. V4/M4 have lasted over ten years, and there are still people who prefer them. Such a period is of course far too long; three or four years would be optimal. I think Daz is on a good way now.
I hope, G9 will share G8's mesh geometry, so it will be easier transfering your characters over. I also think, the A pose is just better.
Maybe some extra glute bones and ( dForce) soft body dynamics are top of my wish list for G9.
Does anyone know if skin folds and creases will eventually have an add-on or secondary product for the lower body?
You could try asking in the official thread you may get an answer there.
is the HD expressions an add on?
do you mean these?
https://www.daz3d.com/hd-visemes-for-genesis-8-female
thanks.
these are hd files that came with g8 install
As unfair as it might seem, it is still a criterion to take into account. Volume of content is one of the main reasons that the Victoria/Genesis lines have been so successful compared to other 3D figures.
It might not be notable from an upgrading perspective, but if one had to recommend one generation over the other to a complete newbie, we're now at the point where we can confidently advise them that that G8 has more native content than G3.
Well, it is significant from a content creation and technical point of view, even if by the time it reaches the end user those advantages are fairly invisible; if I were choosing to create a new figure, I'd pick A-pose over T-pose.
It's one of the basic Daz add-on packs: https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-female-expressions
(Interestingly, the blurb there only mentions that they're HD in the "What's included" section, although if you compare to the https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-3-female-expressions promo pictures, the difference is stark).
EDIT: Now correctly linking the G3 expression pack for the comparison...