Objectivly highest quality character? [Texture resolution, Bumb, Normal, Displacement...]
Learning3D
Posts: 90
Hi friends. Yes, I have used the search and know that there are many threads about this topic. But often the discussions were heated about aesthetics.
This is not about aesthetics, symmetry or perceived beauty. I am curious about what's the highest quality character and when it's not about the "mesh" it's mostly about textures. I guess? Is there something im am missing that's contributing to objective "quality"?
- When I do heavy morphing on for example the breasts. The textures can get stretched. So I was searching for bigger textures, but most of the characters seem to have 4K body textures, is there an 8K character?
- I saw that some characters have normal maps. Some don't. Some have this very "doll" like skin. Some have more "realistic" skin. You can say higher quality because the vendor did clearly take more time to create the skin.
I could also ask: What character is, in your opinion, made with the most passion for detail and has many different texture layers, too look as good (realistic) as possible? (Preferably 8K+ to allow heavy morphing)
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Comments
I'd probably say BlueJaunte's work comes to mind :
https://www.daz3d.com/noemi-hd--smile-hd-expression-for-genesis-8-female
There is asymmetry, lots of modelling & texture details and little things that sell it as a more realistic character. However, it also depends on the skills of the artist to know how to light, frame and render for realistic effect. Iray is a biased renderer so you need to make good judgement calls to sell it as a realistic character. You could definitely load in the Noemi character, botch the lighting for example and make her look like a cartoon character.
This isn't about texture size - it's about uv-mapping. If you take a square plane with a square painted in the middle and then morph it into a rectangle, the painted square will stretch into a rectangle too. For extreme morphs, you need specially made textures that account for the stretching in the polygons (and/or a custom uv-map)
I would say it's Mabel 8, objectively.
Objectively, sure you mean subjective, because it is down to folks opinions, unless you are going to define the criteria on what makes a good bump, displacement etc. If you do define what makes a good whatever, please share your research paper. :)
Nope, that is subjective; why do you state that?
4k or 8k won't really matter; 8k will give you more leaway, but not much.
If a character is morphed extensively away from the G3,8 (or earlier) shape, then the textures would need to be painted to that shape to get a good non-stretched look. They are then likely to look odd on the default shape, or look odd in places at least.
Spy v Spy
https://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2001/aug/spyvsspy/010830.spyvsspy.html
or the postman, S.D. Kluger
I think the OP defined the parameters reasonably well, whether or not those are valid objective critieria. As Silent Winter pointed out, the OP rests on some faulty assumptions about the impact and significance of texture size, but it does mention the presence of normal maps as an indication of a higher quality character. Given the impact normal maps make on a character's appearance and contribution towards creating realism, I don't think this is an invalid argument, and I think the level of detail and quality of normal maps can be assessed in a reasonably objective manner.
My comment was directed at "real," rather than beauty. We've hashed out the beauty issue many more times than the reality issue. On criteria, the OP said texture, etc was just a guess, not the only criteria. I was merely pointing out in my Oh So Subtle way, that Mad Magazine was a real collection of paper with real ink depicting Spy v Spy. Santa Claus is Coming to Town was a real special broadcast to real TV screens. No reason to treat a photograph taken in a studio with artificial lighting as a more real medium to depict characters than a clay doll filmed with stop motion, at least in my opinion.
in other words the quality of the models and textures are only as good as the final render by the user
Back when I worked in catering, someone used to say, "Good goes in the oven, goood might come out."
Whilst there is some truth in what you say, as ever, things aren't that simple.
From what I understand, their presence is all that is required. As I stated, there is a need to define what they actually need to have. Although the facts are verifieable, and are not open to bias or opinion - they are either there or not; their presence alone will not assure an improvement of quality.
... Because all textures are not created equal.
The OP's parameters as posted are not defined reasonably well. By those parameters the character that puts the heaviest load onto your system is defined as "best". We dispute such a definition.
...Protozoon's Grand Piano.
Man you guys are making this more complicated than the original poster meant it to be. He wants to know what textures we would recommend as having the most detail.
presumably for massive boobage stretch
Easiest workaround is take the render into Photoshop and clone out stretched portions with nearby correct texture or from original texture file.
IRL I have the same problem. I've gotten bigger throughout the years, and the textures just don't fit my old UV map like they once did, and now there's a ton of stretching where there didn't used to be any. Ugh.
mine the geometry is distorted with bulges in odd places
i wonder what kind of results the OP would have gotten if they'd asked "what's your favorite realistically-textured female character to apply extreme breast morphs to?"?
i'll join the devil's advocate club in the room, though, and point out to the OP: the mesh is just as important as the textures are in this context. PAs do all kinds of interesting things with mesh in the breast area to give that zone a distinctive shape. and expanding the breast mesh may do unexpected things to the breasts' shape, and the way that the UVs distort or preserve the chest mats.
meanwhile, back at the ranch...
Learning3D, i'll second Paintbox's suggestion. bluejaunte's ladies are not likely to disappoint you.
j
I know, and I'm sorry that it is making it more complicated than intended, but I feel it justified.
Agreed, you said it better imo - subjective as my opinion is. :)
Probably some suggestions, including perhaps from me. :)
Bluejaunts might have been included in my suggestion; I'll go away and think about it.
cool! i always enjoy and appreciate your recommendations.
:)
j
I can't find the first character I was going to recommend; the reason: I can't find the character that has 6K Torso textures; I'm choosing that one as it is one of the few and possibly the only that has a 6K texture. It definitely fulfills the objective part.
Second Circle's https://www.daz3d.com/sc-rain-for-genesis-3-female SC Rain has some great options with some very detailed eye, blood and makeup textures, for those wanting to venture into the horror subset.
Redz's https://www.daz3d.com/hallie-hd-for-genesis-8-female Hallie has good selection of options, with some very nicely detailed normal maps and lie tatoos.
RawArt's https://www.daz3d.com/hag-witch-hd Hag Witch (whilst also serving of an example of the point made above that it isn't just about textures), looks great (in a horrically horrible way) utilising a combination of good textures and good modelling.
RareStone's https://www.daz3d.com/hann-mei-and-hann-mei-short-hair-for-genesis-8-female Hann Mei, has a great selection of LIE makeup options, plenty of textures and the normal maps are provided as .tiffs, which can (but we're unlikely to notice at the resolutions we render at as a rule?) make a difference to the quality.
These are all great characters, and I could easily have chosen from Bluejaunte, Devious Dolls, FWSA, Mousso, P3D, Raiya etc, and etc. Lyoness for example, always includes lots of options, normal maps, and was the first PA irrc, to include No Brows as an option. I have a lot of their characters.
8K is not going to help you if you are stretching the textures too much. In fact a stretched 8K texture might even look worse. You either need to carefully sculpt them so that the texture is not stretched so much, or tackle the texture map itself in a program that allows you to paint on the model with the texture applied. If the texture is stretching because you are making it massive, then the best way is the second way. There is no texture here that will help you. One thing you could do is use a texture that has less detail. With less detail, then the stretching is not as visible. At least less detail in the area you are stretching.
There might be one other option, but it is not at Daz. The other option is a geograft for the chest that has its own UV. A certain rotic site that sells Daz content for rendering may have this sort of thing. I know they have geografted breast items, but I do not own them so I do not know exactly how they work. I just think they MIGHT help you. For further discussion, considering where the subject matter might end up going, you might want to find a different forum, or perhaps a Daz reddit.
well what's matter depend for what you are looking, if just for render, if for animation if for game, many branchs somehow have they top priorities, for exemple specially for game normal maps are the most important thing, a very well made "normal map" can work good as any high resolution mesh(high poly count), then comes the "retopology", ofcourse at some extend it can be good for render too, or even for animations, but overal what is matter really is the engine where youa re working, daz, unreal, maya, blender, what sort of "render" they work, like if pbr, iray, and many others type of render, configuration they can support.
high resolution texture only gona work until one point, which will be when we get to the 16k area, because as far we can tell the human vision normally can "support" up to 19k resolution", then "pixels resolution can only go good until that point from that you can have to go with or high poly count or good normal maps or both.
Is there actually something that will let a person paint directly on the model? Because that was what I was asking for here:
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/350751/iray-decals-geometry-shells-geoshells-and-seams
But nobody seemed to understand that.
....a nightmare to do with clothing that has patterns like stripes, gingham, or plaids..
Being that a number of my female characters for my stories are young or petite, I end up with the opposite issue as such patterns tend to distort badly as the clothing and texture was optimised to fit a character with a larger bust size.
substance painter it allow you paint direct in the model the textures.