New DS Filament Render Engine

WendyLuvsCatz

trying the cat again but line tessalation at 3 and fur thick enough to see in the viewport rather heavy

rendering to file now 

you see it in textured openGL view too of course but Filament just that much more demanding

not sure if better off with iray TBH

3Diva

WendyLuvsCatz said:

video

transmapped foliage gives a lot of artifacts

 

and how do I make Dforce strandhair thicker?

can the not Dforce editable ones and they render

Select the hair in the Scene Tab (the hair is usually parented to the cap for dForce hair so you'll have to open up under the cap to find the hair usually) then go to the surfaces tab and where it says "Line Start Width (mm)" increase that value to increase the line thickness. You might also increase the "Line End Width (mm)" as well if you increase the Line Start Width.

WendyLuvsCatz

3Diva said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

video

transmapped foliage gives a lot of artifacts

 

and how do I make Dforce strandhair thicker?

can the not Dforce editable ones and they render

Select the hair in the Scene Tab (the hair is usually parented to the cap for dForce hair so you'll have to open up under the cap to find the hair usually) then go to the surfaces tab and where it says "Line Start Width (mm)" increase that value to increase the line thickness. You might also increase the "Line End Width (mm)" as well if you increase the Line Start Width.

sorry already ahead there 

(googled and Oso3D had tips)

but yeah iray no line tessalation renders faster

MoonCraft3D

I'm kind of meh about it.

 

WendyLuvsCatz

video

barbult

I don't understand why Filament and Iray handle lighting so differently if they are both PBR. Why do the renders look so different? Is it because Iray shaders aren't interpreted "properly" by Filament? Filament examples I've seen so far are really disappointing. As a viewport preview, they don't look any closer to a final Iray render than a Texture Shaded preview does. They are different, but not better, to my eyes. Am I misunderstanding the purpose of using Filament in the viewport? 

3Diva

WendyLuvsCatz said:

3Diva said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

video

transmapped foliage gives a lot of artifacts

 

and how do I make Dforce strandhair thicker?

can the not Dforce editable ones and they render

Select the hair in the Scene Tab (the hair is usually parented to the cap for dForce hair so you'll have to open up under the cap to find the hair usually) then go to the surfaces tab and where it says "Line Start Width (mm)" increase that value to increase the line thickness. You might also increase the "Line End Width (mm)" as well if you increase the Line Start Width.

sorry already ahead there 

(googled and Oso3D had tips)

but yeah iray no line tessalation renders faster

Wierd, on my machine Filament renders the default Daz House Cat WAY faster than Iray. I set Iray to Progressive Rendering >> Max Time to 30 seconds and enabled denoiser. The Iray animation of the Daz House Cat (with Viewport Line Tessellation Sides set to 0) took 15 minutes and 45 seconds to render. The same animation took Filament only 2 minutes and 16 seconds to render.

 

Iray Render (15 min, 45 sec):

https://player.vimeo.com/video/468355404

 

Filament Render (2 min, 16 sec):

https://player.vimeo.com/video/468348227

WendyLuvsCatz

I will have to test the exact scene in iray but other renders I have done of the Housecat were definately not as slow as this one was

there are likely other factors in that I used my other computer with the 980ti

I don't want to know what CPU render would do on this one 

cannot test now as running waifu2X caffe on it upscaling and denoising an ancient Homemovie from my Sony Betacam that running my card and CPU flat out!

estimated time 13Hours!!!

marble

barbult said:

I don't understand why Filament and Iray handle lighting so differently if they are both PBR. Why do the renders look so different? Is it because Iray shaders aren't interpreted "properly" by Filament? Filament examples I've seen so far are really disappointing. As a viewport preview, they don't look any closer to a final Iray render than a Texture Shaded preview does. They are different, but not better, to my eyes. Am I misunderstanding the purpose of using Filament in the viewport? 

Sorry to say that I agree - I had very high hopes for Filament but the Viewport Preview is poor quality and I actually find the old viewport Texture option more comfortable to work with right now. At least I know how to handle the lighting.

Again, as I commented in another thread, I had hoped that Filament would be the DAZ Studio equivalent of Blender's Eevee but I've seen (and achieved) much better results in Eevee. Let's hope that there are additional shaders and settings to come which will improve the results but so far I don't think I will change my workflow except, perhaps, for my short animations (I have not tried any yet).

timon630

The settings of Glossy are very different from Iray, which is very strange.

Sevrin

Couple of points:

1. This is a beta release.  Daz had to get this out to a larger pool of users to see what the response would be.  The rich kids with 30X0s were dying for an update, so here it is.
2. Daz needs to make clear what their thinking is with respect to Filament, why they chose it, and how they expect it to be used, and how the challenges of using items purchased at the Daz store are to be used with it.
3. It's a new thing.  It's not the old thing.  It's not going to be fit for every purpose or replace Iray or even 3DL in a lot of our workflows.
4. It's not all terrible.
5. It's not the Antichrist. I don't think it is, anyway.

WendyLuvsCatz

I am hoping we get shaders and or a script too

it is certainly an improvement on openGL and for those rendering animations not needing the full PBR of iray and wanting the jcms and HDmorphs you cannot bring to iClone its a treasure.

I will be using it a lot I think

Sevrin

WendyLuvsCatz said:

I am hoping we get shaders and or a script too

it is certainly an improvement on openGL and for those rendering animations not needing the full PBR of iray and wanting the jcms and HDmorphs you cannot bring to iClone its a treasure.

I will be using it a lot I think

Oh, for sure.  A Filament Uber Shader would help solve a lot of issues, I think.

marble

Sevrin said:

Couple of points:

1. This is a beta release.  Daz had to get this out to a larger pool of users to see what the response would be.  The rich kids with 30X0s were dying for an update, so here it is.
2. Daz needs to make clear what their thinking is with respect to Filament, why they chose it, and how they expect it to be used, and how the challenges of using items purchased at the Daz store are to be used with it.
3. It's a new thing.  It's not the old thing.  It's not going to be fit for every purpose or replace Iray or even 3DL in a lot of our workflows.
4. It's not all terrible.
5. It's not the Antichrist. I don't think it is, anyway.

I don't think anyone expected it to be an IRay replacement and no, it is not terrible. Just something of a disappointment. Enough of a disappointment for me to consider remaining with the old OpenGL viewport until Filament improved significantly. 

The Eevee comparison is apt, in my view. In Blender I can switch between Cycles and Eevee and see a similar image in the viewport. That is not possible with OpenGL and IRay but I had hoped that Filament would close the gap somewhat. I don't think it does that.

Gordig

I'm a little perplexed that anyone could think Filament isn't a gigantic improvement over texture shaded. Sure, it won't replace Iray, or even the Iray preview mode, but I never expected it to. 

kyoto kid

3Diva said:

namffuak said:

3Diva said:

Ok so opening up a fresh scene and it looks like Tone Mapping and Environment Settings are gone from the Render Settings Tab. Which is extremely weird. Where are they?

I only had them in the scene I was working in because I had saved the scene in the previous version of Daz Studio which, of course, had tone mapping and environment settings. But they only showed up then as weird "add on" objects in the scene. Why aren't they in Render Settings anymore? And how can I add tone mapping or adjust the Environment Settings in a new scene (since they're MISSING now... wth?).

Select them in the scene tab - and the settings are now in the parameters tab.

 

If you start a new scene they're not in the scene tab.

Edit: Apparently if you want Tone Mapping and want to adjust the Environment Settings you have to MANUALLY add them to the scene tab by going to "Create" >> "New Tonemapper Options Node" and "Create >> "New Environment Options Node". *sigh* I don't understand the logic behind this move. It's an unnecessarily complicated added step that will now make tweaking the tone mapping and environment settings more difficult because now you have to find them in the Scene Tab among all the other props, characters, lights, and cameras in the scene.

Edit 2: It appears you can get the Environment and Tone Mapping back in the Render Settings Tab by switching back to the Iray Engine. Whew! Thank goodness! lol 

..thank you, was a bit "concerned" there. 

"I know engineers, they love to change things."

--Dr. "Bones" McCoy

kyoto kid

WendyLuvsCatz said:

video

transmapped foliage gives a lot of artifacts

 

and how do I make Dforce strandhair thicker?

can the not Dforce editable ones and they render

...lots of "strobing" going on there as well, based on the camera position at one point the lily pads were bright green then seemed to disappear when the camera panned down.

Wondering if it has it's own "headlamp".

marble

Gordig said:

I'm a little perplexed that anyone could think Filament isn't a gigantic improvement over texture shaded. Sure, it won't replace Iray, or even the Iray preview mode, but I never expected it to. 

I think there's a point to be made here about what we might use Filament for. Yes, Filament is more realistic than OpenGL (texture shaded) when it comes to rendering but I'm guessing that most of us don't use Texture shading for finished renders. However, if we use Filament purely as a viewport preview, there are problems. The lighting needs to be re-done before we can render in IRay, for example. Also, I'm finding the Filament preview somewhat blurred and lacking detail and I don't yet know how to improve that in the viewport.

So, personally, I am more comfortable working as I always have with OpenGL because I can easily flip into IRay preview if I need to see how it will look in the render without having to mess with tone mapping and environment intensity and light strength because Filament is nothing like what you get in IRay. Actually, I see little point in Filament if it is not good for previews and hardly good enough for renders.

kyoto kid

...well going to stick with the previous beta for the time being a it works and is nice & stable. Is this something you can just avoid using all together? 

Last I need is for a scene I spend a lot of time on to be corrupted as some have reported.. 

M-C

marble said:

Sevrin said:

Couple of points:

1. This is a beta release.  Daz had to get this out to a larger pool of users to see what the response would be.  The rich kids with 30X0s were dying for an update, so here it is.
2. Daz needs to make clear what their thinking is with respect to Filament, why they chose it, and how they expect it to be used, and how the challenges of using items purchased at the Daz store are to be used with it.
3. It's a new thing.  It's not the old thing.  It's not going to be fit for every purpose or replace Iray or even 3DL in a lot of our workflows.
4. It's not all terrible.
5. It's not the Antichrist. I don't think it is, anyway.

I don't think anyone expected it to be an IRay replacement and no, it is not terrible. Just something of a disappointment. Enough of a disappointment for me to consider remaining with the old OpenGL viewport until Filament improved significantly. 

The Eevee comparison is apt, in my view. In Blender I can switch between Cycles and Eevee and see a similar image in the viewport. That is not possible with OpenGL and IRay but I had hoped that Filament would close the gap somewhat. I don't think it does that.

 

I´m in the same boat here.

Eevee raised the bar very high and I think a lot of people expected Filament to come close to that. But the siple truth is it doesn´t. At least not in it´s current state.

Yes it is a beta and I´m sure it will improve over time. But right now it´s next to useless since one still has to switch and wait for the Iray preview to kick in to set up scene lighting and other things that Filament handles different.

WendyLuvsCatz

kyoto kid said:

...well going to stick with the previous beta for the time being a it works and is nice & stable. Is this something you can just avoid using all together? 

Last I need is for a scene I spend a lot of time on to be corrupted as some have reported.. 

no scene has actually been corrupted 

just sometimes I could not get my environment back without restarting or adding iray render advanced settings 

it is only the Filament setttings that seemed to get stuck on a hdri etc too not iray

MoreTN

Gordig said:

 

Gordig said:

Sven Dullah said:

Gordig said:

MoreTN said:

Does this render 3DL textures? And is there a speed improvement over 3DL? Very excited if so, because that would mean I don't have to replace my 8 yr old, low end PC (which I can't afford to do anyways).

I would suspect not, since Filament, as a PBR engine, is more similar to Iray than it is to 3DL. I'll do some tests, though.

Would be most appreciated;)

My limited testing so far indicates that the answer is a resounding "nope".

Thanks for checking. That's disappointing but balanced out by the hope that it'll be much quicker for cpu only renders using Iray textures.

MoreTN

The experiments and discussions people are having are really interesting and, whatever the final view of Filament, I think they show Daz was right to release it in the Beta.

kyoto kid

...so again, is this something you can just ignore and never bother with?  Still dealing with Iray mterial and light settings even after all these years (kind of liked the simplicity of 3DL and AoA's advanceed lights).

 

Leana

kyoto kid said:

...so again, is this something you can just ignore and never bother with? 

That's an additional option you can choose not to use, yes.

kyoto kid

...thank you.  

nicstt

Tried it out. Not a fan so far, looking forward to it improving though.

WendyLuvsCatz

video

lighting test

3Diva

WendyLuvsCatz said:

video

lighting test

Very nice! :)

WendyLuvsCatz

3Diva said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

video

lighting test

Very nice! :)

thanks, still trying to figure out how to add glow to the flames though, this is where we need a shader, it need not emit but cannot be flat with a light and still look convincing