Medieval Market Stall01: more fitting vegetables?

felis

maikdecker said:

MelissaGT said:

How on earth do you simulate the carrots without them deflating? I've been trying forever to figure out how to make solid objects fall using dforce without them actually changing shape... 

There's a shipload of options/settings available in the dForce part of the material tab, which - when one knows what they influence - can be used to make things more or less squishy, bendable or less explosive...

The pure "fall down" part of the simulation is ruled by the gravity setting in the dForce/simulation tab.

So it is possible to make non-squishy objects fall down and don't lose their shape when landing on a surface... don't ask me for the needed settings though, as I do know that it IS possible, but I never needed to try it out myself. It might help to buy SY dForce Rocks and Boulders and check the dForce setting for the rocks and boulders and to copy them on carrots (or whatever vegetables are supposed to fill the boxes) or to just play around with one value at the time to see what they influence.

You can build an object with internal geometry, a la the dForce Add-On, and then they will kind of keep there shape. In general a low-poly object keep its shape better than a high-poly.

There is to my knowledge no parameter setting that really simulates a rigid object. 

MelissaGT

maikdecker said:

MelissaGT said:

How on earth do you simulate the carrots without them deflating? I've been trying forever to figure out how to make solid objects fall using dforce without them actually changing shape... 

There's a shipload of options/settings available in the dForce part of the material tab, which - when one knows what they influence - can be used to make things more or less squishy, bendable or less explosive...

The pure "fall down" part of the simulation is ruled by the gravity setting in the dForce/simulation tab.

So it is possible to make non-squishy objects fall down and don't lose their shape when landing on a surface... don't ask me for the needed settings though, as I do know that it IS possible, but I never needed to try it out myself. It might help to buy SY dForce Rocks and Boulders and check the dForce setting for the rocks and boulders and to copy them on carrots (or whatever vegetables are supposed to fill the boxes) or to just play around with one value at the time to see what they influence.

I'm fairly confident with dForce when it comes to hair and clothing...but I still have never been able to make solid objects reliably fall without deflating. I suppose I will have to buy something like that just to look at the dForce surface settings.  

paulawp (marahzen)

MelissaGT said:

maikdecker said:

MelissaGT said:

How on earth do you simulate the carrots without them deflating? I've been trying forever to figure out how to make solid objects fall using dforce without them actually changing shape... 

There's a shipload of options/settings available in the dForce part of the material tab, which - when one knows what they influence - can be used to make things more or less squishy, bendable or less explosive...

The pure "fall down" part of the simulation is ruled by the gravity setting in the dForce/simulation tab.

So it is possible to make non-squishy objects fall down and don't lose their shape when landing on a surface... don't ask me for the needed settings though, as I do know that it IS possible, but I never needed to try it out myself. It might help to buy SY dForce Rocks and Boulders and check the dForce setting for the rocks and boulders and to copy them on carrots (or whatever vegetables are supposed to fill the boxes) or to just play around with one value at the time to see what they influence.

I'm fairly confident with dForce when it comes to hair and clothing...but I still have never been able to make solid objects reliably fall without deflating. I suppose I will have to buy something like that just to look at the dForce surface settings.  

I did incorporate ideas from Rocks and Boulders, though ended up adding other settings to fine-tune things. The part I shared here was what was uniquely my creation, and mine to share - eg, the goldbergian apparatus for stacking. 

maikdecker

felis said:

You can build an object with internal geometry, a la the dForce Add-On, and then they will kind of keep there shape. In general a low-poly object keep its shape better than a high-poly.

There is to my knowledge no parameter setting that really simulates a rigid object. 

&

MelissaGT said:

I'm fairly confident with dForce when it comes to hair and clothing...but I still have never been able to make solid objects reliably fall without deflating. I suppose I will have to buy something like that just to look at the dForce surface settings.  

Check out the How To Use dForce thread, and there the #s 26. Dropping an Object onto a Surface and 63. Momentum Transfer (linked on the first page of the thread) which might give you some further ideas how to manage to dForce things without squishing them (too much).

Also remember with gravity turned to 0 moving the box/basket/whatever UP to catch the static (but dForced) carrots in a timeline will catch them like pokemons... probably (haven't tried it myself, but from my experience it should work).

felis

maikdecker said:

felis said:

You can build an object with internal geometry, a la the dForce Add-On, and then they will kind of keep there shape. In general a low-poly object keep its shape better than a high-poly.

There is to my knowledge no parameter setting that really simulates a rigid object. 

&

MelissaGT said:

I'm fairly confident with dForce when it comes to hair and clothing...but I still have never been able to make solid objects reliably fall without deflating. I suppose I will have to buy something like that just to look at the dForce surface settings.  

Check out the How To Use dForce thread, and there the #s 26. Dropping an Object onto a Surface and 63. Momentum Transfer (linked on the first page of the thread) which might give you some further ideas how to manage to dForce things without squishing them (too much).

Also remember with gravity turned to 0 moving the box/basket/whatever UP to catch the static (but dForced) carrots in a timeline will catch them like pokemons... probably (haven't tried it myself, but from my experience it should work). 

#26 is as I said, low poly objects are better at keppeing their shape, and as there is used a low poly bounding box as carrier of the object, you will never get the objects to stack.

#63 is the best setting I have found for keeping an object in shape, but it will still deform more or less, depending on the situation, and is used in a zero gravity environment, so you won't get object to stack that way.  

chris-2599934

Nice technique, paulawp.

If you have it, you could probably run Instancify at the end, to turn the carrot objects back into instances.

maikdecker

Testing the concept:

1. Using a prop crate from the Wild West Town Containers product.
2. No carrots. Can't model anything appropriate. So I used primitive spheres, 5 cm diameter, 10 segments, 10 sides representing apples.
3. "Apples" get "dForce Dynamic Surface" applied. In surfaces I set Buckling Stiffness to 100%, Buckling Ratio to 1% and density to 10.0 (so they don't buckle by themselves)
4. Gravity and Air Resistence set to 0
5. primitive plane is used as upper "trap" to keep the apples bouncing out of the crate
6. simulate... timeline 60 ticks, movement for the crate starting at 20, ending at 50 to give the simulation time to settle

Pre-start look. I made one sphere, applied the dForce modifier, then copied it and placed the copies as shown in this and the next picture. The primitive plane is set slightly above the "apples" as can be seen here

this how I arranged the "apples" manually. I guess (!) it could be done by some script and with other "vegetables". It's important that there is one "apple" below the others, that gets pressed into the others, making move like billiard balls.

Result after moving the crate upwards to catch the "apples"

And here the result shown from above without the plane.

Further experimentation is probably needed to see how the whole process can be simplified and to work with more "apples", but that is something that I entrust to somebody else... I only wanted to prove the concept

felis

I like the idea of moving the basket with 0 gravity.

I tried with a low gravity of 0.1, and they actually hold better up than expected. And you can argue even if an item gets deformed, it is ok, as long as it isn't significantly.

paulawp (marahzen)

Maikdecker: Proving that there is more than one way to crate an apple. 

chris-2599934: Yep, have Instancify and that was the theoretical plan at the end. 

#63: So I decided to test this morning with the potato from Medieval Market Stall 01 (also a nice product; I bought all three of the Medieval Market Stalls the day they came out). I find that this prop behaves very differently than the apple and carrot from the other set. Under the same conditions, if I use this process with that potato, it deflates significantly*. I then tried the settings as noted in #63 and this does reduce the deflation but it also makes it take an insanely long time to drop. This method I was using for the apple prop was making use of significantly reduced gravity and increased air resistance, which caused the apple/carrot/etc to drift downward; along with managing the number of objects at a time, it pretty much stopped the explosion problem. But - when I upped the buckling stiffness and ratio, and increased density, the same environmental settings caused a drastic increase in time to run. It's a fun toy, but definitely not a one-size-fits-all solution for every prop.  (*Not to cast aspersions on any vendor. Nobody marketed the product for its ability to drop and stack with dForce.  ) 

Sorry to hijack this thread. Just wanted to share the idea. 

felis

The problem is how the geometry look.

If the potato has higher mesh resolution the risk of deforming is higher