Genesis 9 Character Essentials
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Anatomical elements textures come with Victoria 9, there are none for the base Genesis 9 figure, as Richard said. Interestingly though, there are Normal Maps for the anatomical elements included with G9.
Thanks. I was confused by what Richard said as whether they were included with Victoria 9 herself or just with the Intro Bundle,.
I'm wondering if the "anatomical elements" are the same in the Genesis 9 Essentials product and the Victoria 9 product? If not, is one better than the other?
The only thing included with Victoria 9 are the textures for the anatomical elements. The actual elements are in the characters essentials pack.
What I want to know is why is my Genesis 9 still grey even after supposedly adding the materials? it has skin texture, but is still 100% grey.
EDIT: Okay I found the textures themselves, I think.
Where? they surely aren't in the anatomy folder.
Another question for DAZ... Why are there so many folders you have to open to get to the actual products? I have to open 3 or 4 folders just to get to things.
EDIT: Another question, when will there be morph sets so we can make our own characters with G9? (For those of us with no modeling skills)
You have to buy the Genesis 9 Characters Essentials Pack, it's a seperate purchase.
Okay, that's one question answered, thanks., I didn't even see that. And the name is close to what was in the downloads this morning if you aren't paying attention.
Why do you care? You said you were returning your order.
man this is really frustrating, this thing about anatomical elements is really disappoint, the fact which the product itself never com with mats to match the base characters skins, aways angered me and it's feel really wrong, they basically are only seling the "mesh" without any texture and you have to wait for "characters to be created to use the "gens" because you can't do that with the base characters, it's really trully disappointing, i'm already disappointed about what they did with the character mesh topology making it don't have navel or niples and the fact which they are still selling a "incomplete" product" (anatomical elements), and it's feel like they are trying to force you to "pay more to have "materials for it", because or they went too lazy or to greedy here, again i know all gens past genesis 1 was like that without the gens base mats(which is also wrong) i was hope this time they could fix it but it seens again they "purposelly did it and leave again anatomical elements without mats and if you want to have "mats" go buy x character or character bundle otherwise you can do "nothing" with what you have.
To get the navel and nipples to look right when you dial them in, change "View SubD Level" under the Parameters tab to 3.
I too am truely disappointed that DAZ dropped the ball again on the anatomical elements. Now that they are selling them spearately, they should have included materials for the base G9 skins in the package. I already refuse to buy characters that do not have the elements included. If a PA does not see fit to include them, I do not purchase the product. l do a lot of pinup art and would use the anatomacal elements when appropriate. I also usually wind up purchase thrid party vendor elements too as both the male and female anatomy are varried. DAZ really needs to do an update and include the materials for the anatomical elements they now sell separately, or at least offer them as a stand alone productr for thiose who want to purchase them.
Honestly it isn't a problem that the gen props are in this Character Essentials. After all, you no longer need to buy a "Pro" bundle or whatever they decide to call them. You don't need to buy any core character, ever. You can just buy characters that come with the gen texture.
The problem is the communication. If people do not read the forums, how will they ever locate the gen props? I wonder how many people bought the Victoria 9 bundle thinking it would come with this prop? I suppose somebody will spout out the standard "Well they can get refunds", but refunds are still a hassle. Refunds are a failure to meet a customer's expectations.
The even bigger problem is that even though Genesis 9 has double the polygons of 8, they designed this thing in a way so that the belly button and nipple will not show at all until you subdivide several times. This might not seem like a big deal, but a common strategy for large scenes with lots of people is to reduce the subdivision to save memory. Say you have some background characters in a scene, if some are baring their navels, that poses a problem because the model will not have a belly button at all.
It is such a strange design choice. You could still have used quads if you really really wanted, but you could have used more of them in these key areas.
Rather, anyone not rendering at a high subdivision will have to rely on normal maps. But here's the thing, because Iray is a PBR engine, most PAs have stopped baking in hard details like a deep belly button. It just wasn't necessary. So even a normal map will not get the job done. If by chance a PA makes a normal map that creates a deep belly button, well now that effect gets exaggerated if the user does use a higher subdivision and you get a giant hole in the belly.
I am not sure Daz really thought this through. It just seems to me that somebody would have brought this up during testing while G9 was in development.
yeah i do agree about the gens being sold in this pack was a much better idea than every "pro bundle" have it, however mine issue still the "no skin" making then look "half made" or a defective product since almost every geofraft product made comes with "materials" nad have the gens without any mat to match the default skins for me aways was a big sin which daz used to "throw under the rug for a really long time (4 generations g2, g3, g8&g8.1 and now g9), which at this point was supposed to get "fixed" by adding the skin mats to match the "default skins coming with the essentials which again don't make sense the free stuff come with a full strong set of skins and the "payed content come without any one.
totally agree with you about the nipples and navel, being forced to go ""deep subdiv" or wait to "buy "nipples and navel" in later for me was really a bad call from daz making me really start to have big doubts about daz quality, it's like they saw the "meta human" body mesh" and hey let's make the same for us, which was a bad play since what was happening in daz community was the opposite, peoples where trading the daz head for the meta human head and using the "daz body" because metahuman head was better but daz body was better then they where mixing both to achieve the most perfect combination of both, but here daz make it "bad" because basically they just "cloned metahuman body for daz using the same "plastic doll body with the reason being "for artits be able to make "any type of body" even non humans, now i'm waiting to see the daz dog9 or horse 3 being made from daz base mesh lol, because "now they can".
Oh I think they thought some matters through well enough which is why no, somebody is not spouting out the standard refund statements. Happen to notice time of sale and time of purchase, and time of receipt? They've got their [our] money. [although I sincerely hope that those who have put in for refunds do get them]
We're all expecting to get the products we've ordered. I finally got the 2 free bonus items BUT the pro bundle, which eventually arrived in my account, was only there for a short while. Last I checked - java swirlies for all pages. I put in a ticket and hope that this too will be fixed. But there is this whirlwind of a thought that none of this should be happening, yet it is.
I was lucky and found out that the anatomical elements was a separate purchase this time and it saved me soime money. After looking at the V9 bundle, I was going to pass on V9 at least until another bundle came out to get the anatomical elements. Just glad I did not have to buy the bundle. I got the $10.00 off coupon and bought V9, the V9 makeup, and the expressions alacart and picked up Zeddicus's Volupoulous morph and poses and the the character essentials too. Now I am on hold until the head and body morphs are released.
I've to say I'm a bit surprised by this as well. I would have expected the base skins to be actually complete and not miss a certain very important part of the body that most humans of specific sex have. I'm sort of tempted to report this as a missing texture but seeing that this was a conscious decision... well, I'm a tad disappointed that Daz is choosing to go this route. I was hoping we as a society had made at least some progress in not being afraid of certain parts* of our bodies but apparently not.
Feels like in Daz world we are actually taking a few steps back... well would be if not for all the sexy fetish gear that is being released.
Eh, I'm sure someone comes up with matching texture freebie for the "anatomical elements" or at least hoping so...
(*the irony in talking about genitals in a roundabout way fully intended)
It's still weird to me that in 2022 we have to go all hush hush on "anatomical elements" without being adults about it who can responsibly discuss a topic. And those who can't, how can they learn if they aren't exposed to it? In recent research, that usually only exerbates problems people have with sexuality (that while it's private, it isn't something shameful)
Not necessarily Daz's problem to fix ofcourse but it would be commendable. I do applaude Daz embrace of non binary and LGBTQ+ causes, so it's not that there is no progress.
Because it might even effect the quality of the product like some mentioned the shortcomings of specifically the masculine element.
It really has nothing to do with going hush hush on anatomical elements and everything to do with making the mesh work as efficiently as possible with both male and female shapes.
Let's just say 'The Dukes of Hazard' were only allowed to be aired at 11:00pm at night when it was first released. I was stationed at Hill AFB UT in 1976 to 1978.
Maybe they have eased up, but I doubt it. But this might stray into politics and shut the thread down.
i would not be that terrible annoyed if the "short cut" they did here in the character mesh was not so terrible by removing the "retopology for nipples and navel and to be fair also in the butt behind the fact which they go full "quad" or cloned metahuman "non human body" with the excuse of "to make any shape of character", making the point of "effective for both male and female "much less effective than it was supposed to be, like the old, they did 1 step a head and 3 steps back, with non gen skin and no nipples and navel and others parts which where supposed to be more round/ have a "special mesh shape", basically only metam human in unreal is like that, every other character from any other store even reallusion are not made in this way, they do have the "right geometry" for human beings unlike here on daz which now become "less human".
Daz used to be for me a "reference" when come to make "anatomically accurace humans, now it's become just a "generic doll house with g9 and i do hope which g10 they fix the mistakes did here on g9 otherwise for me daz will be dead(when i finally have all the g8 and g8.1 products i do want).
it become worse than many others places, not everything did by epic must be "reference" an you must copy it, metahumans while they "look beautfull" with amazing complex skins and deforms, it's still a lot limited and deffective product for peoples which want do more "complex" and less family friendly stuff and by no means is something to be "copied and followed, this is why again peopples are using daz body with metahuman head because they know metahuman body is really bad, but daz is going in the opposite direction by giving to daz characters the "bad metahuman body
the only reason metahuman is popular in unreal indie market is because "its FREE you have a "family friendly" free high quality character, where you pay "nothing for it(as long you use it on unreal) is the same as mixamo characters it's like a more like a PG10 high upgraded/advanced version of mixamo characters where you can achieve a high level of realism with awesome complex textures of 4k and 8k and new tech hairs, however when you want a more "detailed and precise body or want it to do something as simple as "use a bikini" it will fail epically because of the body geometry.
I've yet to buy any version of Michael; I never like it, always preferring alternatives. Ollie remains one of my favourites!
Sorry for the late reply but I just saw your post.
Yes I returned my Victoria 9 HD preorder; but that was so I could repurchase it with the $10 off email coupon.
I love Ollie too :). I mix him in a lot of custom characters :D
The funny part about the new base skins not having the gen textures is that most, if not all of them come from existing core characters that aready had the gen mats. You can recognize who the characters are from their thumbnails (which is also funny because we don't have the morphs to make the character in the thumbnails). All they did was convert those old core mats to G9 UVs, yet for some reason they chose to ignore converting the gen mats!
That is where this gets silly. It is not like they had to make these mats from scratch. They already had them.
On the flip side I wouldn't be concerned over how masculine the base shape may or may not be. It is just the base shape, it is intended to be altered by morphs into something else. If it turns out that people are struggling to sculpt a masculine model on G9, then that would be something to worry about. But I don't think it is. This is like complaining that the starter cube in Blender is too square, LOL.
But it is OK to complain about the navel and nipple being only HD. That doesn't make sense.
yeah i do agree the "core characters where the skins mats come do have "gen" mats then don't make any sense for the g9 default gen don't have it either, they just need to make some extra adjusts maybe, it's really make the work looks "half-assed".
about the "cube stuff" for me the issue here is which the "cube" or what is supposed to looks like a "cube" looks more like a "triangle trying to look like a cube" before i can start to even work on it, that is the issue even as a "base model" it's looks bad and before it can actually start to look more "human" you have to do some "extra work", which in previous genesis you don't have, both male and female actually looked like a "man and woman" with the right proportions where here you have a ugly "non-binary" body with a "large spine" which make me think it is the "elongated man from the HQ or the plastic woman from incredible, the point is which they leave a full uggly base base model which need some "extra work" before it can start to look more "human like".
even the "victoria 9 female character look with some wrong proportions and long/weird spine. if get the "metahuman where they "based genesis 9" the base model proportions look more accurace than genesis 9 so far.
As I understand it part of the motivation was to make the emsh more flexible - having a preset location for everything is not always helpful with very different shapes, leading to texture distortions and awkward bending. of coruse the default HD details are still going to have a set location, but with the even mesh distribution a PA is free to make new HD details in a more helpful spot (and even artists at other stores/freebie makers have displacement). This is obviously useful for the common base emsh, but even within a gender it has potential benfits - though we, of course, are used those limitations in the existing mesh and so may be in a "better the devil you know" situation.
yeah i can undertstand this however is important they also take u account "the customer too" as we see it while maybe for the majority of the "vendor it was a 'good direction" for many "customers" it was a bad one, which is important to take in account too, because i end "what is matter is "sales" and if the product don't sell well or not well received by the customer then it can be a big problem, not aways what is better for the "vendor" is also better for the customer and leaving "all details only to hd and really high levels of hd" is not exactly the "good call", specially if part of you customers gonna use the character at "base" level or at best level 1 of hd which still bad for this "choice", HD here only works on really high level of "HD", base level or level 1 it works really poor and will put part of the customers away from the product due to those issues.
Doing this DAZ basically put part of his "base customers" away" from G9 by doing those choices.
But if the chnages avoid the issues I mentioned above that will benefit the end-user too, by yielding better products.