My Issue with Daz Hair > > >My Issue with Daz Hair

My Issue with Daz Hair

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  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    linvanchene said:

    @ Kendall

    Again thank you for providing some more insight.

    Maybe the point of implementing allready has passed the moment in time when it would have been most beneficial anyway. With less than 6GB VRAM that feature would have helped a lot.

    But if the Pascal Titan cards indeed offer a significant amount of additional VRAM (12+ GB) then having render engine specific splines supported may become even less requested...

    More memory wont be much of a solution; as ever, it will get used, and folks will be eagerly awaiting the next memory upgrade. :)

  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 1,382
    edited July 2016
    nicstt said:
    linvanchene said:

    @ Kendall

    Again thank you for providing some more insight.

    Maybe the point of implementing allready has passed the moment in time when it would have been most beneficial anyway. With less than 6GB VRAM that feature would have helped a lot.

    But if the Pascal Titan cards indeed offer a significant amount of additional VRAM (12+ GB) then having render engine specific splines supported may become even less requested...

    More memory wont be much of a solution; as ever, it will get used, and folks will be eagerly awaiting the next memory upgrade. :)

    hmm yes you are right. I was short sighted with my previous statement.

    My challenge from 2013 - 2016 with 6 GB VRAM was trying to fit 1-2 people and one animal with fiber hair into VRAM.

    Instead of 6 GB VRAM I would have needed 6.4 or 7 or 8 GB of VRAM to fit the scene.

    Therefore I thought that with 12+ GB VRAM such scenes would not anymore be an issue.

    Finally some kind of progress, right?

    - - -

    timmins.william said:
    Well, even doubling GRAM, optimizing is still sensible. I mean, great, now you can render TWO fuzzy limpkins rather than one... woopdeedoo. :)

     

    Spot on.

    As a next step I would probably want to try to fit 3-4 people and 2-3 animals with fiber hair into VRAM and the whole struggle starts again... cheeky 

    hopeless case of an infinite struggle against current technology limitations, isn't it?

    - - -

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,695

    I'm okay with the hair not being fiber mesh personally.  Although I like some sets it isn't really appropriate for every character and can sometimes look a bit thin or too wirey.

  • MorkonanMorkonan Posts: 215
    DaWaterRat said:

    I, personally, would love it if a vendor intentionally, obviously (I've come across a few sets of styles that more or less work for this) made a series of hair models (preferably transmapped, for the reasons outlined in linvanchene's post above) that were intended to be the same hair in different styles, sold them separately, but maybe then had a bundle offer of the 3-5 hair models that were the "one" hair.  Yes, I'd expect each model to be in the $12-$20 range (depending on length, morphs, number of colors of texture map, etc.) with the bundle priced accordingly.  But I'd still be quite willing to purchase such a series of hairs (finances permitting)

     

    I agree. A "Hair Series" would be an innovative and interesting way to present a range of custom hair products. In fact, the name alone would get attention from prospective buyers. (People are suckers for that sort of thing, it seems. :) )

    If, for instance, all hairs associated with that series had the same texture maps, it would be a nice addition. In my opinion, this sort of collection would be an opportunity to ramp up the quality of the product at a justifiably increased price. Styling handles, more morphs, better fitting morphs, better behavior with scaling issues, more movement and styling morphs, etc.. A few basic models, each within a genre of hair (long/short/bob/bun/ponytail/etc) that all maintained features that could be associated with a single person's hair, cut and uncut, would be very nice. Several series could be created, too, with unique looks dominant within each series, to set them apart. (curly, wavy, straight, short curls, long curls, etc.)

    Of course, I'm a Poser user, so nobody would bother making them suitable for use in Poser... So, I won't get a chance to buy this for the one genre of product that I do not, myself, bother to model/make. ( I have no knack for creating hair models and will, likely and permanently, suck at it until the end of time. :)  But, I do alter hair models that I purchase, as needed.)

  • MorkonanMorkonan Posts: 215
    linvanchene said:
     

    I guess such solutions would not be free.

    Personally I wouldn not mind to pay a larger amount of money for advanced DAZ Studio plugins that make use of all the Nvidia "works" toolkits...

     

    Hairworks is free. It's tied to DX11+ processors, though, AFAIK. It also is designed to support other common hair tools. Whatever renderer being used would have to support rendering hair products from those platforms and DX11. Not sure how animation rendering would happen, there. But, if the renderer supported physicality-based animations and the associated hair models, as well as DX11, then I guess it'd work without importing the animations, themselves. (ie: The game titles mentioned support dynamic animation of hair assets in them, AFAIK, so it's "doable.")

  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 2,710

    Autofit system completely ruined clothes and hair for me. I found a solution for clothes, have not found one yet for hair. I have LAMH, but it's completely unusable for humans right now. Totally impossible to comb out anything but simple short hair like male hair for me.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    edited July 2016
    linvanchene said:
    nicstt said:
    linvanchene said:

    @ Kendall

    Again thank you for providing some more insight.

    Maybe the point of implementing allready has passed the moment in time when it would have been most beneficial anyway. With less than 6GB VRAM that feature would have helped a lot.

    But if the Pascal Titan cards indeed offer a significant amount of additional VRAM (12+ GB) then having render engine specific splines supported may become even less requested...

    More memory wont be much of a solution; as ever, it will get used, and folks will be eagerly awaiting the next memory upgrade. :)

    hmm yes you are right. I was short sighted with my previous statement.

    My challenge from 2013 - 2016 with 6 GB VRAM was trying to fit 1-2 people and one animal with fiber hair into VRAM.

    Instead of 6 GB VRAM I would have needed 6.4 or 7 or 8 GB of VRAM to fit the scene.

    Therefore I thought that with 12+ GB VRAM such scenes would not anymore be an issue.

    Finally some kind of progress, right?

    - - -

    timmins.william said:
    Well, even doubling GRAM, optimizing is still sensible. I mean, great, now you can render TWO fuzzy limpkins rather than one... woopdeedoo. :)

     

    Spot on.

    As a next step I would probably want to try to fit 3-4 people and 2-3 animals with fiber hair into VRAM and the whole struggle starts again... cheeky 

    hopeless case of an infinite struggle against current technology limitations, isn't it?

    - - -

    Progress?

    I'm not sure; personally progress would be being innovative, not just increaseing the available resources.

    ... Having said that, I want more G-RAM. :)

     

    I think my biggest issue with the hair as it is currently - VWD will fix one of the issues on some of the hairs (the better made ones IMO); the issue is most are too even; especially at the hair ends, they really do just look like they've been cut.

    I'm almost exclusively using OOTs hair; although Aeon Soul's are good too, and Goldtassel's Flirty hair doesn't have thet just-left-the-salon look.

    Post edited by nicstt on
  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 2,995
    edited July 2016
    linvanchene said:
    nicstt said:
    linvanchene said:

    @ Kendall

    Again thank you for providing some more insight.

    Maybe the point of implementing allready has passed the moment in time when it would have been most beneficial anyway. With less than 6GB VRAM that feature would have helped a lot.

    But if the Pascal Titan cards indeed offer a significant amount of additional VRAM (12+ GB) then having render engine specific splines supported may become even less requested...

    More memory wont be much of a solution; as ever, it will get used, and folks will be eagerly awaiting the next memory upgrade. :)

    hmm yes you are right. I was short sighted with my previous statement.

    My challenge from 2013 - 2016 with 6 GB VRAM was trying to fit 1-2 people and one animal with fiber hair into VRAM.

    Instead of 6 GB VRAM I would have needed 6.4 or 7 or 8 GB of VRAM to fit the scene.

    Therefore I thought that with 12+ GB VRAM such scenes would not anymore be an issue.

    Finally some kind of progress, right?

    - - -

    timmins.william said:
    Well, even doubling GRAM, optimizing is still sensible. I mean, great, now you can render TWO fuzzy limpkins rather than one... woopdeedoo. :)

     

    Spot on.

    As a next step I would probably want to try to fit 3-4 people and 2-3 animals with fiber hair into VRAM and the whole struggle starts again... cheeky 

    hopeless case of an infinite struggle against current technology limitations, isn't it?

    - - -

    Then we're going to be making you very happy.  EDIT:  At least from the hair end.  Nothing I can do about the huge textures in the scene eating up all of the VRAM.

    Kendall

    Post edited by Kendall Sears on
  • deleted userdeleted user Posts: 1,204
    edited July 2016

    There is one soul out there who I know can pull off a few of my ideas. Mec4D... Great artist. Has the mind set, knowledge and the will power. Everything I've ever seen from Mec4D was quality craftsmanship.http://www.daz3d.com/mec4d

    Post edited by deleted user on
  • HaruchaiHaruchai Posts: 1,988
    edited July 2016
    Morkonan said:
    DaWaterRat said:

     

    I agree. A "Hair Series" would be an innovative and interesting way to present a range of custom hair products. In fact, the name alone would get attention from prospective buyers. (People are suckers for that sort of thing, it seems. :)   

    Whilst this does not go too far in to the 'series' arena this product from Neftis did at least attempt to give the user options of differnet styles, albeit from a common base. I am still surprised that this was never taken further, as far as I know, as it seemed like such a great idea.

    http://www.daz3d.com/addition-hairstyles

     

    I echo the call for everday 'normal' hairstyles. My two 'go to' styles are the DAZ Elite Ponytail and Fabiana's Twin Fair Hair.

    Post edited by Haruchai on
  • BlueIreneBlueIrene Posts: 1,318

    My current issue with Daz hair is that a lot of the recent transmapped styles have been released with just one material zone, which even includes the scalp. Products like UHT2 shaders give us tons of things we can do to make hair more lifelike, but options are limited with just one clunky material zone. I realise that UHT2 and the like probably present a threat to the income of any PAs who have understandably been boosting their bottom line with 'Colors for (whatever style)', but my money is a lot more likely to go on hair with multiple material zones in the future than it is on hair with just one, and the chances of anything that falls short in this department being returned are high.

  • deleted userdeleted user Posts: 1,204
    edited July 2016

    If I remember correctly Real hair is comprised of 100's of colors. Even black people have a few strands of blonde and red. And random. Solid colored hair is looks fake... What I do is load a tecture. Load another texture over ot at 50% transparancy. Move it off center about 3 pixils to the left, load another color and do the same moving it to the right. I did that with these images and you can see the results.

    LLF-LynnH-Brown.jpg
    3000 x 3000 - 2M
    LLF-LynnH-Blonde.jpg
    3000 x 3000 - 2M
    haarrotbl.jpg
    2000 x 2000 - 819K
    Post edited by deleted user on
  • deleted userdeleted user Posts: 1,204
    edited July 2016

    .

    LLF-LynnH-Brown Real.jpg
    3000 x 3000 - 1M
    Post edited by deleted user on
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited July 2016
    Angel - Wings said:

    Here's my issue. Everything looks like 12th century dutchess hair on the night of a grand festival to celibrate the king of Neverlands' wedding ... Or a Red Carpet broadway hair style for hollywood Nominees...

    There is a reason why the Leyton Hair was so pupular... Because its feasable, believable hair that you can acutally see someone having that style of hair.

    Sometimes trying to be overly glamorous makes things look very off, and unrealistic. Sometimes, less is more. Some of the hairs I get have so much volume to them trying too hard to be glamorous that it dang near doubles the size of the head and makes the proportions look weird because with the hair, from behind her head looks enormous.

     Alot of people don;t relies this but you can use older hair pieces with genesis 3 very easily , and you can use genesis 3 hair pieces on older generations characters without loosing the functionality of the hair. By parenting the hair instead of fitting the hair to the character. you may have make a few minor adjustments  to fit it properly , I don;t use genesis 3 but I been buying genesis 3 hair pieces and parenting them to genesis 2 and v4 for a while instead of fitting them too the character.

    Too add to your complaint, for me its not so much the hair style because once you have a library of hair pieces you can dress your character to match your hair your using or vice versa.  I used glamorous hair pieces in a lot of very unconventional ways  but with Iray my complaint is, most hair textures look very plastic and unrealistic compared to the rest of the Iray render i'm working on.  that has been the biggest thing I noticed anyway.

     

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,787

    Do what DimensionTheory did with frizzies, create geometry shells to plump out hairs, if transmapped vertically you can make a thinner horizontally tiled map of the strands for the top layer.

  • fastbike1fastbike1 Posts: 4,078

    @ Angel - Wings

    @ Ivy

    @ Sad

     

    Sloshwerks UHT2 will do a lot of these things in a simpler fashion.

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 7,130
    edited July 2016

    What I hate is that on many models, when you use wind morphs, the hair divides up into bands of hair instead of individual strands. But 3Dream and Mairy usually have good hair if you don't use extreme wind morphs and there are some old ones that have disappeared from the store like Sapphire Fox Hair for V3 that I'm going to try on G3 that I remember looking very realistic. I may even try some of Koz's old freebie hair. Although I don't think they had movement, they were very realistic close up. And MaximXul (I think that was the name, used to have amazing textures, but seems to have disappeared or maybe going under a different name?) So many long hairs these days look fine at a distance, but terrible closeup, if you use any morph or styling at all. Even with UHT2 or my go to product, OOT Iray hair shaders, when you try to add style or movement, most long hairs just look totally unrealistic and those without bangs look horrible on the forehead, except ONE I found on Rendo that a lot of vendors/PAs use for extreme close ups. The problem is in the mesh I think. If it's the transmap, I may be able to fix them in Photoshop, but most likely it's the mesh and I have no knowledge of modeling... Someone said that if you parent rather than conform, the hair doesn't have all the terrible jaggies I've been getting, so definitely going to try that. It's great that a lot of hairs have wind morphs, but very few actually look realistic when you use them. Hair doesn't clump into equal vertical chunks in wind...

    PS. Try typing "transmap" on an iPad with auto correct for a good laugh. I got "grandma passed," "transnational",  "Transmission", "Transylvania" and more crazy ones, LOL... And forget trying to do a search in the store for a PA name on an iPad, it autocorrects each time to something laughably unrelated as soon as click to search. Very frustrating!

    Post edited by Wonderland on
  • NosiferretNosiferret Posts: 339

    The guys need some hair changes too, hard to do a medieval fantasy scene when the guy has a modern day hair cut...and they're all similar in style, short with a floppy bit to the side. Exception are a few man-buns we've seen, but long hair...why do the guys luck out on that? They look goofy in womens long hair, because the hair is shaped to the females head, neck and shoulders. They need some ponytails, straight shoulder length, and longer hair. I'd like to see wispy bangs like hair that came out of the tail and to be able to move them independently from one another or hide them if I don't want them. Like Fili, Thranduil, Legolas, Bard and Kili hair...fine examples of hair for men. 

  • lx_2807502lx_2807502 Posts: 2,996

    I'm surprised no one posted here after the http://www.daz3d.com/free-spirit-hair-for-genesis-3-female-s "whole new take on how hair works" promo.

    Is this the hair Kendall was talking about? I read through the promo but I don't really understand it.

  • SloshSlosh Posts: 2,391

    I find it surprising that some think hair from one vendor is more everyday looking than most of the Daz hair (too glamorous or old fashioned).  Checking their store, I see lots of "runway" style hair and big, sweeping waves, and hair blown all over the place.  It's good hair, I'm sure (I only own 2 of them.  Well, 3 now because one came in a Pro Bundle), but it's not fair to criticize the other hair when it is no different.  Please, understand, I am in no way trying to put down that vendor's hair... Just, to me, it is as glamorous as the other hair being talked about and, with a few exceptions, is not "everyday" hair.

    I do agree, OOT's side pony hair (I know that name isn't right) is quite simplistic and looks good in the promos.  And Leyton Hair is clearly a classic already, and is used in a lot of renders.  

    But, for me the following hair also looks very natural and "everyday".  Maybe you could give these styles a try :)

    http://www.daz3d.com/zofia-hair-for-genesis-3-female-s

    http://www.daz3d.com/belinda-hair-for-genesis-3-female-s-and-genesis-2-female-s-and-victoria-4

    http://www.daz3d.com/sally-hair-for-genesis-3-female-s-and-genesis-2-female-s

    http://www.daz3d.com/seema-hair-for-genesis-3-female-s

    http://www.daz3d.com/oleander-hair-for-genesis-3-female-s

    http://www.daz3d.com/mada-hair-genesis-3-female-s-genesis-2-female-s-and-v4

    http://www.daz3d.com/force-hair-for-genesis-3-female-s

    Actually, I could do this all day, but it's not easy on an iPad.... :)  Just take another look at SWAM, goldtassel, and AprilYSH, as well as OOT and OziChick, and EmmaAndJordi.  Heck, I even have a few in my store (though they don't fit into what you say you are looking for)... and think outside the promos a bit... when I was testing UHT2, I bought A LOT of hair from Daz and from other markets. .I spent more than $320 in one week to get hair for my promos and videos.  I found that many times the hair can be made to look quite ordinary with the morphs supplies, and sometimes they just load that way.  Perhaps the vendors are glamorizing the styles in the promo by using the most dramatic morphs available.  

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943
    Wonderland said:

    ... And MaximXul (I think that was the name, used to have amazing textures, but seems to have disappeared or maybe going under a different name?) ..

    http://www.daz3d.com/maskim-xul

     

     

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 10,943
    Nosiferret said:

    The guys need some hair changes too, .... They need some ponytails, straight shoulder length, and longer hair.

    http://www.daz3d.com/ancient-combat-hair-for-genesis-2-male-s

    http://www.daz3d.com/ancient-combat-ponytail-add-on-pack-18277

    http://www.daz3d.com/cuffed-tail-2

    http://www.daz3d.com/cuffed-tail

    http://www.daz3d.com/casualslick-hair

    http://www.daz3d.com/historical-curls

     http://www.daz3d.com/mon-chevalier-hair

    http://www.daz3d.com/elven-hair-for-genesis

    http://www.daz3d.com/elven-hair

    http://www.daz3d.com/wolfhair-for-v4-a4-g4-m4-h4-and-f4

    http://www.daz3d.com/kaylum-hair-for-genesis-2

  • Kendall SearsKendall Sears Posts: 2,995
    lx said:

    I'm surprised no one posted here after the http://www.daz3d.com/free-spirit-hair-for-genesis-3-female-s "whole new take on how hair works" promo.

    Is this the hair Kendall was talking about? I read through the promo but I don't really understand it.

    Nope.  Not what I was talking about.

    Kendall

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