OT Update 2: Nvidia & AMD abou… > > >OT Update 2: Nvidia & AMD abou…

OT Update 2: Nvidia & AMD about to lose a lot of sales from cryptominers?

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  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,457
    7thOmen said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...

    I some ways, I feel as if I am watching It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World playing out in real life.

    Take another step or two back and look agian. From my perspective, I feel as if I'm watching scenes from Idiocracy in real time.

    And no, we don't need more government tentacles in our daily lives.

    Pessimistically yours,

    Omen

    ...not about to step over that line as I see TOS there.

    Anyways, I stand by my comments, this whole thing is little more than the latest "get rich quick" scheme, but one which is seriously hurting CG and gaming enthusiasts (for whom these GPU cards were targeted) in the process with ridiculously inflated costs. I don't see any increase in production for a couple reasons (including some I advanced) stated in this and other threads. We very well may be in for a long drought even when those 20xx cards finally come out later this year (I expect miners along with resellers to jump on them at the moment of release and deplete stocks, leaving us in the same situation we are now).  Unless one can afford the inflated prices or the cost of a Quadro, it's either watching the grass grow rendering in Iray on the CPU of going back to 3DL.  

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,457
    dragotx said:

    That "house" is not much bigger than my cubicle at my office

    ...about the size of my WC and BR closet combined.

  • DrNewcensteinDrNewcenstein Posts: 816

    Iray has other built-in optimizations you can put to use, like turning off Tone Mapping and applying Iray Emissives to scene elements or low-poly primitives as light sources. This allows you to set the Luminance drastically low, especially if you use Watts as your Luminance Units, and you can set your Max Samples to under 2000 in many cases. This has really been a time-saver for me since my GPU cluster went down.

    Contemporary Living and Dream Home really benefit from this, even if you're using several figures with clothes and hair.

    Granted you sacrifice things like DoF, but if you hate doing post-work as much as I do, then you should be willing to take the extra render time to get it.

    On the bright side, I should be able to get good prices for my 780tis and Titan Z on Ebay.

     

     

  • DrNewcensteinDrNewcenstein Posts: 816

    Other than that, I'm sure there are people who have quit their day jobs to watch Nvidia's site for when new cards are available, and snap them up to resell for more. It's dirty, but legal. Restricting sales to gamers only would be a huge insult, because that means the DS Iray crowd won't get them, either.

    Iray is not just in DS. It's an available plugin for Max and Maya, and at $300 a year, I'm sure those crowds are hurting just as much over this news. Nvidia needs Iray to be a success in those markets, to justify further development of it. If their CUDA-based rendering engine tanks because affordable CUDA cards aren't affordable anymore, you can expect to see the implementation of it in DS to stagnate. If that happens, when the crypto-currency thing dies down and prices stabilize, we'll be able to build big rigs using old cards, but new cards like Volta and whatever's next will be a waste of cash because Iray will have been dropped.

    There's nothing Daz can do here. If they work a deal to get a lot of cards to resell, they're going to be marked up for profit, and even then there's no screening to ensure that only artists get them. Even then, who dictates who can qualify to buy their stock? PAs would say they should get first crack since they quit real jobs to do this for a living , so they need first access, if not sole access. 

    The bottom line is that as long as Nvidia gets their money, it's not their concern who buys them. Yes, they prefer we buy Quadros for rendering and heavy number-crunching. They also prefer that only professional studios and large mining outfits buy Quadros. They are not fans of hobbyists using hobbyist-grade apps like DS or Octane over upscale pricey workstation packages.

    Look for future features of Iray to be locked to Quadros, and incompatible with GTX cards, as a direct result of this current situation.

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,172

    I think a lot of what I've seen in this thread so far is conjecture and "the sky is falling" panic. Eventually things will level off and in the meantime we'll have to make do. Because necessity is the mother of invention, either some company(s) will cater directly to these bitcoin miners with their OWN hardware or supply will better meet demand or some other tech will spring up. Of course it won't happen overnight, but eventually, it will. I know it's super frustrating when you need something and can't get your hands on it. Speculating tho may just upset people needlessly because even experts don't even really know how all of this is going to play out yet.

    Laurie

  • Nyghtfall3DNyghtfall3D Posts: 804

    All I know is that as of last month, the 1080 Ti I bought from Amazon last year for $800 was up to $1900.  As of yesterday, it's only available from marketplace sellers and there's no "More on the way!" message on the product page.  I've been wondering what was driving the price up and this thread explained everything, so thank you

     
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,457
    DrNewcenstein said:

    Other than that, I'm sure there are people who have quit their day jobs to watch Nvidia's site for when new cards are available, and snap them up to resell for more. It's dirty, but legal. Restricting sales to gamers only would be a huge insult, because that means the DS Iray crowd won't get them, either.

    Iray is not just in DS. It's an available plugin for Max and Maya, and at $300 a year, I'm sure those crowds are hurting just as much over this news. Nvidia needs Iray to be a success in those markets, to justify further development of it. If their CUDA-based rendering engine tanks because affordable CUDA cards aren't affordable anymore, you can expect to see the implementation of it in DS to stagnate. If that happens, when the crypto-currency thing dies down and prices stabilize, we'll be able to build big rigs using old cards, but new cards like Volta and whatever's next will be a waste of cash because Iray will have been dropped.

    There's nothing Daz can do here. If they work a deal to get a lot of cards to resell, they're going to be marked up for profit, and even then there's no screening to ensure that only artists get them. Even then, who dictates who can qualify to buy their stock? PAs would say they should get first crack since they quit real jobs to do this for a living , so they need first access, if not sole access. 

    The bottom line is that as long as Nvidia gets their money, it's not their concern who buys them. Yes, they prefer we buy Quadros for rendering and heavy number-crunching. They also prefer that only professional studios and large mining outfits buy Quadros. They are not fans of hobbyists using hobbyist-grade apps like DS or Octane over upscale pricey workstation packages.

    Look for future features of Iray to be locked to Quadros, and incompatible with GTX cards, as a direct result of this current situation.

    ...point one if gamers are only allowed that means us CG enthusiasts are also allowed as many are gamers as well.

    Point two: most of us cannot afford a Quadro card.

    Point Three: most of those mining cards up for resale will have been pushed beyond their nnormal operating parameters shortening their operational lifespan.

  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 8,513
    kyoto kid said:
    DrNewcenstein said:

    Other than that, I'm sure there are people who have quit their day jobs to watch Nvidia's site for when new cards are available, and snap them up to resell for more. It's dirty, but legal. Restricting sales to gamers only would be a huge insult, because that means the DS Iray crowd won't get them, either.

    Iray is not just in DS. It's an available plugin for Max and Maya, and at $300 a year, I'm sure those crowds are hurting just as much over this news. Nvidia needs Iray to be a success in those markets, to justify further development of it. If their CUDA-based rendering engine tanks because affordable CUDA cards aren't affordable anymore, you can expect to see the implementation of it in DS to stagnate. If that happens, when the crypto-currency thing dies down and prices stabilize, we'll be able to build big rigs using old cards, but new cards like Volta and whatever's next will be a waste of cash because Iray will have been dropped.

    There's nothing Daz can do here. If they work a deal to get a lot of cards to resell, they're going to be marked up for profit, and even then there's no screening to ensure that only artists get them. Even then, who dictates who can qualify to buy their stock? PAs would say they should get first crack since they quit real jobs to do this for a living , so they need first access, if not sole access. 

    The bottom line is that as long as Nvidia gets their money, it's not their concern who buys them. Yes, they prefer we buy Quadros for rendering and heavy number-crunching. They also prefer that only professional studios and large mining outfits buy Quadros. They are not fans of hobbyists using hobbyist-grade apps like DS or Octane over upscale pricey workstation packages.

    Look for future features of Iray to be locked to Quadros, and incompatible with GTX cards, as a direct result of this current situation.

    ...point one if gamers are only allowed that means us CG enthusiasts are also allowed as many are gamers as well.

    Point two: most of us cannot afford a Quadro card.

    Point Three: most of those mining cards up for resale will have been pushed beyond their nnormal operating parameters shortening their operational lifespan.

    Point one - many cryto miners are possibly CG enthusiasts or gamers.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,452
    tj_1ca9500b said:
    The bottom line is that as long as Nvidia gets their money, it's not their concern who buys them. Yes, they prefer we buy Quadros for rendering and heavy number-crunching. They also prefer that only professional studios and large mining outfits buy Quadros. They are not fans of hobbyists using hobbyist-grade apps like DS or Octane over upscale pricey workstation packages.
    DrNewcenstein said:

    Look for future features of Iray to be locked to Quadros, and incompatible with GTX cards, as a direct result of this current situation.

    I understand that Nvidia would rather we buy a Quadro, as more money to them, but why would they care that we are using a high end app rather than DS ?

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715

    I hadn't realised some folks were more deserving of equipment than others.

    I'm not prepared to pay the current prices; my choice. I'll wait.

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,172
    nicstt said:

    I hadn't realised some folks were more deserving of equipment than others.

    I'm not prepared to pay the current prices; my choice. I'll wait.

    ;)

  • ferdinandthebullferdinandthebull Posts: 11

    Thanks a bunch, crypto miners!

    greedyminer.jpg
    1224 x 1424 - 262K
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,457

    ...should this turn into a long term affair, something will need to be done to compensate, such as increasing support for 3DL and its features, as too many of us have been priced out of the GPU rendering market.

  • outrider42outrider42 Posts: 3,679

    There is no logical way to prove a buyer is a gamer or not. Its not like retailers are asking to see your Steam account or something. What they are doing is trying to limit bulk sales of GPUs by limiting purchases to just 1 or 2 at a time. Miners are buying 6, 8, 10 or more cards in bulk, so this would effect them. But Nvidia cannot force retailers to do this anyway, it is strictly voluntary. All they can do is request it.

    The reason why Nvidia would want to prefer gamers should be obvious. Historically they have been for gaming. Gamers are far more loyal and more likely to buy the same brands to upgrade, hence Team Red and Team Green. Its almost as divisive as politics or Windows VS Apple, LOL. That kind of brand loyalty is valuable. Miners do not have that loyalty. But even more vital, there is always the constant threat of what happens when the mining boom collapses. If miners were to start dumping their old GPUs, the entire market itself would collapse. While that would benefit us in the short term being able to buy dirt cheap GPUs, it would do serious harm to the manufacturers unable to sell their stock.

    Anyway, while this madness goes on, there articles that try to give players options. Daz users could look these up, too. Articles like this one:

    https://www.extremetech.com/computing/265380-new-graphics-cards-question-hows-gtx-680-looking-days

    They test a 680, and find it runs on par with a 1050ti. That sounds about right for Iray as well. The 680 has 4GB models, as does its 670 sibling. I imagine a 670 would be like a 1050, but the 1050 is strictly 2GB, so a 4GB 670 would be much better if given a choice. So for some people looking to upgrade from CPU rendering, I believe this could serve a stop gap until the market dies down. The 600 series is not what miners are looking for, so prices are not quite as bad on them. The article also mentions the 780ti 3GB. That card would be a beast, granted it is only 3GB, it can be found for just above $200. In a choice between a 780ti and a 1050ti at the same price, it is not even close. It is possible to score a 700 and 900 series cards at sort of reasonable prices if you hunt.

    Of course, if you already have a 900 series card, your upgrade path is not so easy.

    As for those saying it is just a matter of time, that may be true. But for some people, time is money. By the the time GPUs come down in price their Daz days may be over. I'd be much more concerned about the people who do not have a decent GPU right now, just looking to get into Daz. They may be over Daz by the time things change. Still other people may actually depend on GPUs for their jobs, so the thought of needing to replace a GPU that breaks or is past its usefulness may be a serious financial concern. What if a popular PA suddenly has a failure, and is unable to afford the inflated cost of replacement? Then we all suffer.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,457

    ...4 GB is pretty much the bare minimum for GPU rendering. It will not support fairly complex scenes so if that is what you do, you are better off just sticking with CPU rendering and dealing with lengthy render times or going back to 3DL.  8 GB I consider being optimal, but unfortunately, the 1070 and 1080 seem to be the "sweet spot" cards for miners and Quadro P4000s are 900$ at Nvidia for about 200 fewer cores than a standard 1070.

  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,643
    edited March 2018

    My 3 GB 780ti does nicely. With Parris' IBL Master it's even easier to light and composite 3DL and Iray renders together for the best of both worlds. I use an old 470 for my monitor.

    Post edited by Kevin Sanderson on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,457

    ...avoiding having to do that as my scenes for the most part tend to be very involved.  Making sure shadows fall on scene elements properly (particularly when there are a number of characters/props at different depths in the scene) and reflections are correct (for example is my railway station scene with the wet platform) almost requires it all be done in a single render pass to avoid having to paint anything in.

  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 8,513
    kyoto kid said:

    ...should this turn into a long term affair, something will need to be done to compensate, such as increasing support for 3DL and its features, as too many of us have been priced out of the GPU rendering market.

    Why, you constantly repeat this just because you don't want to use Iray doesn't mean the rest of us don't, prices willl just increase if vendors have to support both engines.

    I have a 4gb card and it does just fine, there are work arounds and ways to do large images, again just because you don't want to use them doesn't mean others won't. The world won't end just because video cards have got expensive, if its distressing you this much why not just use another program.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,457
    edited March 2018

    ...already been moving back to 3DL.  I am not the only one either.

    However, disappointed that more and more new content is being released with only Iray materials, and converting them to 3DL is more difficult than the other way around, even with scripts. Daz says they are not abandoning 3DL but it sure feels like it looking at the store.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 104,597
    outrider42 said:

    There is no logical way to prove a buyer is a gamer or not. Its not like retailers are asking to see your Steam account or something. What they are doing is trying to limit bulk sales of GPUs by limiting purchases to just 1 or 2 at a time. Miners are buying 6, 8, 10 or more cards in bulk, so this would effect them. But Nvidia cannot force retailers to do this anyway, it is strictly voluntary. All they can do is request it.

    The reason why Nvidia would want to prefer gamers should be obvious. Historically they have been for gaming. Gamers are far more loyal and more likely to buy the same brands to upgrade, hence Team Red and Team Green. Its almost as divisive as politics or Windows VS Apple, LOL. That kind of brand loyalty is valuable. Miners do not have that loyalty. But even more vital, there is always the constant threat of what happens when the mining boom collapses. If miners were to start dumping their old GPUs, the entire market itself would collapse. While that would benefit us in the short term being able to buy dirt cheap GPUs, it would do serious harm to the manufacturers unable to sell their stock.

    Anyway, while this madness goes on, there articles that try to give players options. Daz users could look these up, too. Articles like this one:

    https://www.extremetech.com/computing/265380-new-graphics-cards-question-hows-gtx-680-looking-days

    They test a 680, and find it runs on par with a 1050ti. That sounds about right for Iray as well. The 680 has 4GB models, as does its 670 sibling. I imagine a 670 would be like a 1050, but the 1050 is strictly 2GB, so a 4GB 670 would be much better if given a choice. So for some people looking to upgrade from CPU rendering, I believe this could serve a stop gap until the market dies down. The 600 series is not what miners are looking for, so prices are not quite as bad on them. The article also mentions the 780ti 3GB. That card would be a beast, granted it is only 3GB, it can be found for just above $200. In a choice between a 780ti and a 1050ti at the same price, it is not even close. It is possible to score a 700 and 900 series cards at sort of reasonable prices if you hunt.

    Of course, if you already have a 900 series card, your upgrade path is not so easy.

    As for those saying it is just a matter of time, that may be true. But for some people, time is money. By the the time GPUs come down in price their Daz days may be over. I'd be much more concerned about the people who do not have a decent GPU right now, just looking to get into Daz. They may be over Daz by the time things change. Still other people may actually depend on GPUs for their jobs, so the thought of needing to replace a GPU that breaks or is past its usefulness may be a serious financial concern. What if a popular PA suddenly has a failure, and is unable to afford the inflated cost of replacement? Then we all suffer.

    Do note, however, that as Iray is updated older families of chips are no longer supported - I get confused, but the 6xx range is probably close to being dropped if not already dropped.

  • Ghosty12Ghosty12 Posts: 2,077
    edited March 2018
    Richard Haseltine said:
    outrider42 said:

    There is no logical way to prove a buyer is a gamer or not. Its not like retailers are asking to see your Steam account or something. What they are doing is trying to limit bulk sales of GPUs by limiting purchases to just 1 or 2 at a time. Miners are buying 6, 8, 10 or more cards in bulk, so this would effect them. But Nvidia cannot force retailers to do this anyway, it is strictly voluntary. All they can do is request it.

    The reason why Nvidia would want to prefer gamers should be obvious. Historically they have been for gaming. Gamers are far more loyal and more likely to buy the same brands to upgrade, hence Team Red and Team Green. Its almost as divisive as politics or Windows VS Apple, LOL. That kind of brand loyalty is valuable. Miners do not have that loyalty. But even more vital, there is always the constant threat of what happens when the mining boom collapses. If miners were to start dumping their old GPUs, the entire market itself would collapse. While that would benefit us in the short term being able to buy dirt cheap GPUs, it would do serious harm to the manufacturers unable to sell their stock.

    Anyway, while this madness goes on, there articles that try to give players options. Daz users could look these up, too. Articles like this one:

    https://www.extremetech.com/computing/265380-new-graphics-cards-question-hows-gtx-680-looking-days

    They test a 680, and find it runs on par with a 1050ti. That sounds about right for Iray as well. The 680 has 4GB models, as does its 670 sibling. I imagine a 670 would be like a 1050, but the 1050 is strictly 2GB, so a 4GB 670 would be much better if given a choice. So for some people looking to upgrade from CPU rendering, I believe this could serve a stop gap until the market dies down. The 600 series is not what miners are looking for, so prices are not quite as bad on them. The article also mentions the 780ti 3GB. That card would be a beast, granted it is only 3GB, it can be found for just above $200. In a choice between a 780ti and a 1050ti at the same price, it is not even close. It is possible to score a 700 and 900 series cards at sort of reasonable prices if you hunt.

    Of course, if you already have a 900 series card, your upgrade path is not so easy.

    As for those saying it is just a matter of time, that may be true. But for some people, time is money. By the the time GPUs come down in price their Daz days may be over. I'd be much more concerned about the people who do not have a decent GPU right now, just looking to get into Daz. They may be over Daz by the time things change. Still other people may actually depend on GPUs for their jobs, so the thought of needing to replace a GPU that breaks or is past its usefulness may be a serious financial concern. What if a popular PA suddenly has a failure, and is unable to afford the inflated cost of replacement? Then we all suffer.

    Do note, however, that as Iray is updated older families of chips are no longer supported - I get confused, but the 6xx range is probably close to being dropped if not already dropped.

    Yeah this is the other issue especially for those with older cards, as far as I know and probably wrong, I heard they had dropped support for 500 series and lower cards in Iray.. And with a possible release of 2xxx series cards this year, I could see 600 series cards having Iray support discontinued..

    Post edited by Ghosty12 on
  • xmasrosexmasrose Posts: 1,408
    edited March 2018

    Did I misunderstood what's being said because I can still render (something not demanding a lot a memory of course) with my card (I have a GTX 460 and of course I usually render to CPU only for obvious reasons.). I just tried with DAZ studio 4.10. Maybe in a future upgrade of Iray?

     

    Post edited by xmasrose on
  • TynkereTynkere Posts: 834

    Hi everyone,

    I've read all six pages, and still not sure I understand.  (except why people might be pissed.)

    (sigh)

    Here's my story & questions.

    Built i-7 based desktop rig in 2015 and put a 960 in it to keep costs down.  Later, I upgraded to a Strix ROG 1070.  Think it cost around $450 or so.

    Went to buy-sell-trade store (where I bought the parts for i-7 rig) to get 16G more RAM to fill up last two slots.  Been doing business with him since 1994-- he’s legit.

    But he was talking like he was on drugs or something.  (Made very little sense to me anyway.)

    The heat sinks on my RAM are red.  Woooo!  BFD.

    He wants to trade my red sticks for white.  It’s the same thing!  Who cares what color it is!

    Then I ask about v-cards.  Big mistake.  ; )

    He asks what I need out of a v-card, and I tell him about 3D hobby I have now.

    He offers to trade out my ROG Strix 1070 if I still have its super-deluxe-box.  Needs to be "like new."  Fair enough, but for what?

    A "PNY" P5000 | 16GB for $800 + my card (and it *must* have the box & crap.)

    Uhm... Sorry but that doesn't make any sense.  What's wrong with it?  More graphics memory but too slow?

    Then he tries to explain the whole v-card situation and why he can't keep gaming cards in stock.  Not even nVidia can even keep them in stock.  I thought he was full of it until I used iPad to check.  OK, so he was right about nVidia

    Heh...  I made the mistake of asking him why the run on v-cards, and woah!  I can’t type his reply here because it was little too colorful.

    What is he talking about?  Playing minecraft, crypto-punks (explicatives) etc., etc.?

    1.) Is "PNY" like the Yugo of video cards or something?  It's 16GB and seems to have the same specs.  Why would it only be $800 + GTX-1070?

    2.) What are reviewers on Amazon talking about when they rate professional cards and say,  "Plays minecraft great!" or "5 stars as a brick!  I’m happy!"

    3.) What does the color of your RAM have to do with anything, and what difference does it make if your card has disco lights that can strobe along with the Bee Gees? 

    This whole thing is like Alice in Wonderland or something.

     It's given me a headache.  Deal sounds tempting, but I'm tired of tech, tee-flops, and barracuda cores

    I'm hoping someone explain in it to me plain English.  

    I hope that made sense.  Thank you for reading 

    --Bruce

  • GreymomGreymom Posts: 1,128
    Richard Haseltine said:
    outrider42 said:

    There is no logical way to prove a buyer is a gamer or not. Its not like retailers are asking to see your Steam account or something. What they are doing is trying to limit bulk sales of GPUs by limiting purchases to just 1 or 2 at a time. Miners are buying 6, 8, 10 or more cards in bulk, so this would effect them. But Nvidia cannot force retailers to do this anyway, it is strictly voluntary. All they can do is request it.

    The reason why Nvidia would want to prefer gamers should be obvious. Historically they have been for gaming. Gamers are far more loyal and more likely to buy the same brands to upgrade, hence Team Red and Team Green. Its almost as divisive as politics or Windows VS Apple, LOL. That kind of brand loyalty is valuable. Miners do not have that loyalty. But even more vital, there is always the constant threat of what happens when the mining boom collapses. If miners were to start dumping their old GPUs, the entire market itself would collapse. While that would benefit us in the short term being able to buy dirt cheap GPUs, it would do serious harm to the manufacturers unable to sell their stock.

    Anyway, while this madness goes on, there articles that try to give players options. Daz users could look these up, too. Articles like this one:

    https://www.extremetech.com/computing/265380-new-graphics-cards-question-hows-gtx-680-looking-days

    They test a 680, and find it runs on par with a 1050ti. That sounds about right for Iray as well. The 680 has 4GB models, as does its 670 sibling. I imagine a 670 would be like a 1050, but the 1050 is strictly 2GB, so a 4GB 670 would be much better if given a choice. So for some people looking to upgrade from CPU rendering, I believe this could serve a stop gap until the market dies down. The 600 series is not what miners are looking for, so prices are not quite as bad on them. The article also mentions the 780ti 3GB. That card would be a beast, granted it is only 3GB, it can be found for just above $200. In a choice between a 780ti and a 1050ti at the same price, it is not even close. It is possible to score a 700 and 900 series cards at sort of reasonable prices if you hunt.

    Of course, if you already have a 900 series card, your upgrade path is not so easy.

    As for those saying it is just a matter of time, that may be true. But for some people, time is money. By the the time GPUs come down in price their Daz days may be over. I'd be much more concerned about the people who do not have a decent GPU right now, just looking to get into Daz. They may be over Daz by the time things change. Still other people may actually depend on GPUs for their jobs, so the thought of needing to replace a GPU that breaks or is past its usefulness may be a serious financial concern. What if a popular PA suddenly has a failure, and is unable to afford the inflated cost of replacement? Then we all suffer.

    Do note, however, that as Iray is updated older families of chips are no longer supported - I get confused, but the 6xx range is probably close to being dropped if not already dropped.

    If we could get a list of what series are supported, which ones support will be dropped for soon, etc.  It would be really helpful.  I have some older CUDA cards with 4 GB, but not sure whether to use them as "display" or "IRAY" cards.  : )

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,457
    Richard Haseltine said:
    outrider42 said:

    There is no logical way to prove a buyer is a gamer or not. Its not like retailers are asking to see your Steam account or something. What they are doing is trying to limit bulk sales of GPUs by limiting purchases to just 1 or 2 at a time. Miners are buying 6, 8, 10 or more cards in bulk, so this would effect them. But Nvidia cannot force retailers to do this anyway, it is strictly voluntary. All they can do is request it.

    The reason why Nvidia would want to prefer gamers should be obvious. Historically they have been for gaming. Gamers are far more loyal and more likely to buy the same brands to upgrade, hence Team Red and Team Green. Its almost as divisive as politics or Windows VS Apple, LOL. That kind of brand loyalty is valuable. Miners do not have that loyalty. But even more vital, there is always the constant threat of what happens when the mining boom collapses. If miners were to start dumping their old GPUs, the entire market itself would collapse. While that would benefit us in the short term being able to buy dirt cheap GPUs, it would do serious harm to the manufacturers unable to sell their stock.

    Anyway, while this madness goes on, there articles that try to give players options. Daz users could look these up, too. Articles like this one:

    https://www.extremetech.com/computing/265380-new-graphics-cards-question-hows-gtx-680-looking-days

    They test a 680, and find it runs on par with a 1050ti. That sounds about right for Iray as well. The 680 has 4GB models, as does its 670 sibling. I imagine a 670 would be like a 1050, but the 1050 is strictly 2GB, so a 4GB 670 would be much better if given a choice. So for some people looking to upgrade from CPU rendering, I believe this could serve a stop gap until the market dies down. The 600 series is not what miners are looking for, so prices are not quite as bad on them. The article also mentions the 780ti 3GB. That card would be a beast, granted it is only 3GB, it can be found for just above $200. In a choice between a 780ti and a 1050ti at the same price, it is not even close. It is possible to score a 700 and 900 series cards at sort of reasonable prices if you hunt.

    Of course, if you already have a 900 series card, your upgrade path is not so easy.

    As for those saying it is just a matter of time, that may be true. But for some people, time is money. By the the time GPUs come down in price their Daz days may be over. I'd be much more concerned about the people who do not have a decent GPU right now, just looking to get into Daz. They may be over Daz by the time things change. Still other people may actually depend on GPUs for their jobs, so the thought of needing to replace a GPU that breaks or is past its usefulness may be a serious financial concern. What if a popular PA suddenly has a failure, and is unable to afford the inflated cost of replacement? Then we all suffer.

    Do note, however, that as Iray is updated older families of chips are no longer supported - I get confused, but the 6xx range is probably close to being dropped if not already dropped.

    ...what about the 7xx series?

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,457
    edited March 2018

    @ Tynkere

    ...the "mining" he is referring to is what is known as cryptomining which is the process of "mining" virtual currency like Bitcoin and Ethereum which are essentially "decentralised" currencies (not issued or backed up by a nation or bank).  Bitcoin has been around for awhile but only recently came into the public mainstream, first through ransomware which demanded payment in bitcoin (which cannot be traced) and last year the meteoric rise in Bitcoin value were in late December, a single "coin" was worth an all time high of 13,181 USD. A lot of the increase in value is based primarily on speculation.

    Most of the "big players" in the game have actual mining farms (like a render farm but dedicated to cryptomining) that are in operation day in and day out.  Individuals started getting into it more recently and this is part of why gaming cards are in such high demand as they initially cost less than pro grade ones or expensive multi CPU servers so there is a perceived notion there will be a quicker return on the investment.  However from several sources I read, as more people become involved, the rate of return begins to diminish (it takes longer to mine anything of appreciable value). 

    PNY is a third party company that only produces Nvidia's pro grade Quadro line They are actually quite reputable.

    Not sure about the second question as I don't do games.

    Never thought there was a difference in RAM stick colour either, unless he was swapping a different brand or series (like GSkill "Trident" for GSkill "Ripjaws"). .

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    edited March 2018
    kyoto kid said:
     

    Never thought there was a difference in RAM stick colour either, unless he was swapping a different brand or series (like GSkill "Trident" for GSkill "Ripjaws"). .

    Most of the "color" on modern RAM is the heatsink, from what I remember when building my mom's PC.

    Post edited by Daywalker Designs on
  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,643
    edited March 2018

    Bruce, the RAM stick colors matter to the guys who have a window to their computer's innards. Usually gamers and the like. The folks who buy all the colored light fans, etc. They like to show off. There are even transparent plexiglass cases for them. If you went to Microcenter you'd understand. They have tons of that stuff.

    Your guy is trying to make some money and must know someone who's looking for that stuff to buy and will pay well for it. Or he knows what they are going for on ebay (why he needs the box in good shape). It makes no sense to you, but that's what it sounds like. Card reviews are often by young people using what they get for gamer cards. Yes, you can use the nice cards to play games.

    The PNY Quadro P5000 new is about $1850 (list $2500). It's a workstation professional card. You would not run out of memory in Iray unless you're KK! ;)  It has 2560 cuda cores, but again it's pro and built for heavy use.

    KK, 780 ti is a Kepler and from what I read a  few months ago it's supposed to be safe from being deprecated for a couple years at least. Some lower 700 series cards are Fermi (lower CUDA core count is a clue), and some are supposedly Maxwell, but I don't know which  ones.

    Post edited by Kevin Sanderson on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,457
    edited March 2018

    ...mine is a 740 Ti.

    Anyway for my purposes, as I mentioned I have been moving back to 3DL.  Parris' IBL Master really makes a major difference, providing high quality indirect lighting in a fraction of the time of UE or Iray CPU mode. As I mentioned there is also a comprehensive Shader utility in development which will open more "doors" as to what 3DL is capable of.   Hopefully this will assist in Iray - 3DL conversion.

    Would also be nice to see sets similar to Mec4D's PBR shaders but for 3DL.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,643

    Your 740 KK is a Kepler.

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