Acer Predator laptop with GT 1…
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Acer Predator laptop with GT 1070 card - anyone use for DAZ?
Cybersox
Posts: 9,137
in The Commons
I've been doing a lot of traveling lately and was looking at laptop upgrading so I could use DAZ Studio on the road when I saw this at Amazon https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01N6S4A2U/ref=nav_timeline_asin?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Has anyone tried using this (or another laptop) for DS/Iray, and if so, how did it work out?
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Mine is: https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=768-41-2633-T1 [EVGA SC17 1070 17.3" 4K Gaming Laptop, Intel Core i7, GeForce GTX 1070, G-SYNC, 32 GB DDR4, 256 GB SSD, 1 TB HDD]
I bought it last year for only $1k4. I mainly use it for DS/Iray, Blender (Cycles render), Photoshop CC and some video editing. It works really fine.
Just make sure you have a good cooling pad though. And the noise while rendering is annoying
Well, I wouldnt pick that Acer laptop at that price. Next generation of Nvidia card is already in the corner
The laptop I use (MSI GT83VR) is better described as a desktop replacement. It works pretty well all things considering. But I wouldn't consider it as anything close to an apples to apples comparison. I have three subsystems on the cooling (CPU, GPU1, GPU2), a mechanical keyboard (the 10 key implementation uses the mousepad as a touchkey, which is less than ideal), and of course it's heavy, and comes with two power bricks. Battery life is under an hour when rendering (so not really an option) It's only 1920x1080 on the 18.1" screen though - thats fine on a lower end model, but on a flagship model I'd expect more - 4K is a thing now...
I seriously considered the liquid coolled Asus GX800VH, as it had a 4K screen, and full (laptop) keyboard, but no one had it in stock when I was shopping. But that one cost even more than mine (over $6K), and I bought mine on sale for around $4K. 99% of people aren't going to have that kind of budget for a laptop.
But as for the laptop you are looking at. The one feature I'd suggest to look for is a boost fan mode for the GPU. I have one, and it does get noticably loud, but when your GPUs climb to 80c, being able to drop to 70c or lower with a boost fan mode, well cooler is better. Also, storage capacity. Daz Studio can soak that up pretty quicky. Sure, there's external drives, but that's an added inconvenience (having to attach said external drive).
The Acer site is talking up the cooling solution, but definitely take a few minutes to see if the particular model you are considering has 'boosted' cooling.
Also, if you can find a laptop with a TBolt 3.0 port, that's helpful. There are external GPU enclosures out there that use these, plus some external drives can also take advantage of a TBolt port. TBolt 3 is 40 Gb/sec, as long as the attaching cable is a half meter or less. The laptop you are looking at does have one USB 3.1/Thunderbolt 3 Combo port, along with 4 USB 3.0 ports. 5 ports total is nice, and of course it has a HDMI port too. BTW UsB 3.1 is 10 Gb/sec 3.0 is slower...
The DVD Multi is nice, not BluRay, but at least it has an optical drive.
Here's the Newegg page for the laptop you are looking at: https://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-34-315-894. ; It has a slightly better breakdown on the stats, if you scroll down and click on the product tour graphic (click on numbers 1 through 7). Newegg is awesome, btw.
Raid 0 on the paired NVME's (256 GB between the two of them) is pointless, but works in the meantime. Several users on the Acer forum have cloned the Raid partition onto a single, larger drive, and then killed the Raid 0 in favor of two separate drives/partitions. The latest NVME SSD's are plenty fast already. But that's something to think about later on down the road. I'll be doing something similar shortly with my MSI... I'm running out of space, and I my particular laptop does have a third NVME port, which will make this a bit easier.
Here's a recent guide to laptops that sport a TBolt 3 port: https://www.ultrabookreview.com/10579-laptops-thunderbolt-3/
The TBolt port would give you an opportunity to 'upgrade' the graphics to the 7nm discrete GPU cards when they finally hit mass availability in 2019, plus move the 'GPU heater' into an external box. That'd free your internal GPU to do other things while you wait on a render.
Acer has GTX 1080 versions, of course, but those are pricier. the GTX 1070s also have 8 GB of graphics memory, so that's good.
Battery life. Take a good look at that. Hopefully you can utilize lots of wall sockets - rendering sucks batteries dry...
Upgrading the ram. It appears that the model you are looking at might have two unpopulated ram slots, but they may have done 4x4 instead of 2x8. Upgrading to 32GB later, especially if it's a 'pop open access panel and add' would be nice.
So, in short, the laptop you are looking at looks rather decent for the price point it's at. An 8 core model might be nicer, but those are pricier of course. A lot of people would still suggest going the desktop route, but if you want your Daz to be on the go (say so you can work on scenes/renders on the commuter train, etc), yeah it's possible. Desktop is by far the preferred way to go, but you know your own situation best.
Thanks for the input. Just to be clear, my existing system at the house is a solid workhorse and most of my actual rendering would still be done on that machine (Intel Core i7-3770K CPU @ 3.50GHz with 32 Gb physical memory/64 memory, a 3TB RAID and something like 20 TB storage, running WIndows 7 Ultimate with a GTX1070). This would just be for when I'm away, so I was looking for something fairly muscular and NVIDIA ready that would still be cheap enough that it wouldn't be quickly irreplaceable if it got stolen or destroyed.
I have almost the exact same model, except mine has 64GB DDR4, the SSD is 500GB and the second drive is 2TB. I also swapped out the optical drive for another 2TB HDD. It is my only rig and I find it perfectly adequate for DS, as well as a host of other programs (Maya, Zbrush, Photoshop, etc.).
...does it come with a W10 Pro option? That will at allow you to defer updating so it doesn't interfere with your work as well as make it easier to turn off features you don't want or need.
The listing shows Windows 10 Home. Mine has the same and in the year and a half I've owned it, I haven't had one issue with a Windows 10 update (touch wood).
One more observation, if you are pondering upgrading things at some point.
Many laptops these days are designed to accept only 9.5mm or thinner HDDs/SSDs (mine included). So while there are 4TB 2.5" HDDs out there, they are much thicker (need more space for the extra platters). The biggest 9.5mm HDD I've found so far is 2TB
It appears that the Acer you are looking cannot accommodate a 15mm thick HDD. The fact that they aren't offering a 4 TB 2.5" HDD option seems to confirm this. That being said, a 2 TB drive in the HDD pocket, plus a pair of 2 TB SSDs would still give you a LOT of storage.
There IS a 4TB 2.5" SSD out there, but it's currently priced at over $1000... Note that the customize section of XoticPC's site for the Predator 17 has a 4TB SSD option, but only a 2TB HDD option...
It can’t. That’s why I could only add 2TB HDD when I swapped out the optical drive.
If you decide to go down this road, like nohiznguyen mentioned, consider getting a cooling pad. In theory, the Cool Master seems like a nifty idea. In practice, it (and, honestly, a cooling pad) does very little to lower CPU/GPU temps when rendering. At the very least, prop up the back end to allow airflow and definitely undervolt the CPU.
One silly trick I use is to place the 'feet' of a laptop on two short 1'x2" sticks of wood. That way there's plenty of clearance under the laptop for cooling. That might defeat the purpose of a cooling pad, but if you aren't using a cooling pad it's a 'poor man's' way to improve airflow if your laptop has vents underneath.
Along the same lines, I cut a hard, rubber ball slightly larger than a ping pong ball in half. I use those in the same way when traveling, since I can't cart around the cooling pad, too. Found mine at a Dollar Store.
That's a pretty slick idea there! With two rubber balls, you could position one hemisphere for each of the four foot pads!
Cue Rush - Hemispheres...
One other option would be to stream your desktop to your laptop. The positive to this is it greatly reduces what laptop you need, actually -anything- can stream, saving a ton of cash. I have streamed my desktop to a junk i3 laptop, Amazon Fire tablet, and smartphone. The negative is that you must have a reliable fast connection to do this, and your desktop would need to be left on so you can access it. One more positive though is that everything is kept in one location, so you don't need to carry your entire Daz library with you (which can be massive depending on what you have.)
As I imagine you have a tablet, smartphone, and maybe an old laptop sitting around, you can test this right now and see how well it works for you.
I just did two, since I like the slight angle it gives me.
And I did have to go listen to that album again.
I second this option. You won't need an expensive monster machine that you risk overheating with, but you still get to use Daz.
I pay for Splashtop so I can stream over internet and it still lets me move sliders and rotate the scene view without all the wonkiness of other streamers. I have one of those HP x2 splits so there's no way it could run Daz on it's own, but with splashtop, I mighht as well have DS on that machine :)
Not quite related, but my current dillema is the 2TB NVME I want to buy. The Samsung 970 Evo is doing quite well in the reviews, and since I'm planning on moving my 1TB NVME Raid array over to a single NVME drive, well that's why I want something that can match or nearly match that performance. The NVME's in this laptop are slower individually, since you know that the OEM went for the best deal when they picked the drives.
The problem is that the 2TB 970 EVOs are very much in demand right now, and are backordered for something like two weeks currently at Newegg. I've found 'older' 2TB Samsung drives in a few spots, but when I do these sort of upgrades I like to get the best option, as long as the price point is right. This is why I want an EVO and not a Pro.
My Raid array keeps giving me 'you have less than 25% of free space remaining, which can shorten the life of your SSD' messages. I'm not overly worried about that, but combine that with the fact that Raid 0 arrays have two points of failure (two drives instead of just one), well you can see why that might make me just a little more nervous...
I may just go ahead and backorder the EVO this week, since they probably won't stay in stock long... That's also why that 4TB 2.5" SSD looks so attractive, although due to that '25%' rule, it's really just 3TB with the rest acting as an 'insurance buffer'. But even on sale that thing is expensive... My 1 TB HDD is also pretty close to full right now...
So, of course, after my last post, I check Newegg and the 2 TB 970 EVO m2 is in stock again. I think the price is higher though - I remember a lower price (say $50 cheaper) when it was backordered.
Nice laptop, great price for features, but I would install a larger ssd in one slot and use the other ssd slot to run external desktop video card so you don't burn up your expensive laptop doing Iray. Iray will cook your expensive laptop due to cooling issues. Laptop is perfect for gaming but is not designed for Iray. You need a external graphics card that has extra cooling fans for Iray. I would suggest just running msi afterburner on that laptop and watch what happens to gpu under load while rendering Iray and you will see what I mean. Nice laptop with great specs thou, I would buy if I needed one.
My CPU/GPU stays below 70 degrees celcius when rendering Iray, which is lower than many report on the Acer Predator boards for demanding games. Like I mentioned above, I do have a cooling pad and have undervolted the CPU. But I don't reach temps that people state they maintain during Fortnite or other games. SO I would disagree that Iray rendering will put more of a strain on this brand of laptop than games would.
You don't need Windows 10 Pro to do that. You can do the same with Windows 10 Home. All my updates are done at night when I'm sleepng. Major updates such as the Windows 10 April 2018 Update will let you know ahead of time and will ask you when you want to update.
What version of Windows 10 are you using?
...when I was still doing my work on a notebook, I used two 3" x 9" blocks underneath the cooling pad to provide ample of airspace underneath. I also used a wireless keyboard and mouse as well as my trackball so I could keep my hands at desktop level.
I use a wire easel / picture frame holder that folds flat. Almost nothing to block airflow and no weight to lug around. Here’s an example, note it’s a 12 pack, you can get a single one at a craft store or Walmart for a couple bucks.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00NEDHM5Q/ref=mp_s_a_1_25?ie=UTF8&qid=1526472647&sr=8-25&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=wire+easel
i just keep it folded so and lay it on the table so it makes a wedge shape and l set my laptop right on it, right in the center of the laptop.
I should clarify that all gaming laptops are great for games and games do not stress a video card like Iray does. Install MSI afterburner and look at the temps on the GPU not CPU while rendering in Iray>> you will see the difference<<. Don't take my word for it check it out for yourself.
A lightweight travel solution as well. Nice.
Goint to pass on that. Since December (probably due to Windows 10 updates is the best guess), MSI Afterburner does not play well with PredatorSense, Acer's proprietary software for temps, controlling fan speeds, overclocking, recording macros, adjusting keyboard backlighting, etc. I prefer to keep that running instead. While rendering with Iray with my undervolting, CPU/GPU temps stay steady at 67/68 respectively, sometimes spiking to 71/72 . Other Predator users report on the forums hitting prolonged temps above 80-85 while playing Battlefront 2, Fortnite and such. The concensus is that 85 is the recommended "heavy load" temp for the CPU and 80 for the GPU.
I would suggest the OP take a look at the FAQ thread over at the Acer Predator forum for info on temps, FPS, settings and other items to help in making a decision. I will say again that for 1.5 years, I've been happy with this rig, using it for rendering, content creation and everything else (music, movies, etc.).
Edited to add the attached screenshot from today. Granted, not an overly complicated scene, but running 20 degrees Celsius cooler, while listening to iTunes, downloading files and surfing the web, than someone playing Battlefront 2 on the same rig.
I was looking at getting this very laptop this week- so thanks for all of the feedback here.
I have a sidebar widget that gives me a bunch of info (memory usage, temps, etc.) in real time. This one:
https://gpu-meter.en.lo4d.com/
I aqquired it as part of a package with a bunch of other widgets (calender, CPU Usage, etc.). Dunno whre I grabbed that package now.
What kind of games do you play? Modern games can push a GPU to 99%, and this will last as long as your gaming session does. And even some older games can because of poor design. People who want the best performance might be running with uncapped framerates and no Vsync, which can absolutely push a card to run full power. Other people may be streaming their games, which is very popular now, and that overhead can also push GPU use. An enthusiast gamer is going to be pushing their hardware every bit as hard as Daz Iray does. Maybe even more, since games can make more use of every piece of a machine, while Iray basically hangs out in the GPU and does its thing apart from the rest of the machine (if you don't use the CPU to render.) You can install a 1080 into a decade old PC and run Iray just as well as a modern PC with that same 1080. But if you try doing this with gaming you will get bottlenecked hard by a Core 2 Quad. Very hard.
So in that scenario, where you use less CPU for Iray, can actually translate to LOWER temps for Iray VS gaming since Iray can render without the CPU. In a gaming rig, with the CPU and GPU running hard, the combined heat can be higher and require more cooling.
Just food for thought.
Also, EVGA has their own hardware monitor like MSI does. I like it more, even though it doesn't track CPU stats. The fan control is easy to use, and I use this to control my temps when gaming and rendering. I set a fairly aggressive fan curve that kicks in sooner and harder than default. This keeps my temps below 60 with just air.