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We have a variety of people, with a variety of experiences and financial resources. Someone might think $2,000 is a great price for a computer. That would be the most I've ever spent on a computer system. My main computers are Apple computers. They serve all my needs, except running DAZ Studio smoothly and efficiently.
I don't like Windows. I'd only be using a PC because it would allow me to use DAZ Studio smoothly. The PC will never be my main computer. I can't justify spending more on a secondary computer than I did on my main Apple computer.
Dell is the one with the non-standard compared to standard HP parts in my experience.
I have been really happy with HP for over a decade now and several PC desktops and notebooks, but I am looking at iBuyPower or even a DIY with a friends help(needed for physical issues).
As for HP CC perks I can outright buy what I was gonna be given for a purcahse and buy elsewhere for less total.
Unless HP has some crazy pricing in the next week or so my new PC will not be HP for 1st time in years strictly due to performance/quality compared to price.
Dell switched to standard parts at least 20 years ago. As far as I aware HP has always gone with nonstandard cases, motherboards and PSU's.
Regardless of what you do, it really pays to research the computer you want to buy. But I suppose that is why you are here. I think if you buy a really well designed PC today it may last you a good long time. But a prebuilt that skimps on too many things like the motherboard will not.
Moore's Law is kind of dead. Even though AMD has really shaken up the market with high core count chips, we are getting close to hitting a wall. It is getting tougher and tougher to shrink die fabs. Intel is really struggling with this right now, as 10nm has been delayed until like 2019 or 2020. It is so bad they are out sourcing some chips, which they did not used to do. And they even have restarted some larger fabs just to get something out. The only way to get big performance increases is to make large chips. AMD is basically placing multiple chips together. I am sure they will get there, but they will need more than die shrinks to do it.
What I am basically saying is that a really good high core chip might last you a really long time. You might only want a new GPU here and there. And remember that with rendering, the more GPUs the better. If you buy a really low quality prebuilt, you will not have that option. I strongly urge buying something that you can upgrade, something you add another GPU to if needed, more hard drives, ect.
Ryzen 3 will launch next year, and could be a pretty strong improvement over Ryzen 2 if the rumors are correct. That is exciting, and such chips might have a long life. Moreover AMD has committed to using the same platform for their CPUs for a while, which makes upgrading the CPU an option. Intel tends to make whole new sockets every 2 years, and that is maddening. I would love to upgrade my CPU, but to do so I need a whole new motherboard, which IMO is ridiculous. I have pretty much decided on going AMD next time, unless Intel pulls a rabbit out of their hat. Plus AMD has been gaining a real edge in creative software. While Intel still has a lead in gaming, from a pure rendering perspective AMD is doing very well. Even though I do play games, I am willing to lose a few frames in a video game in order to be more productive. And they game well enough anyway.
The downside of waiting until next year might be tariffs that increase prices of most PC parts, since most are made in China. A new tariff of 25% goes into effect on Jan 1, and will effect more than just the US. That could always change, but that is what is scheduled to happen.
The tariffs issue is pushing my purchase to this year.
As for Dell and hp maybe it just their super cheap systems that are non standard items. All my hp are name brand boards and standard cases drive bays and more.
From speaking with the HP reps and reading the service manuals, the HPs all appear to have standard, non-proprietary parts. The drives, memory, everything is available off the shelf. The liquid cooling is, as well. I forget the name brand, but when I saw their liquid coolers a few months back I did some research and its a commercially available off the shelf part, just rebranded to blend in with the Omen paint motif. The Higos/Higos2 motherboard appears to be a standard sized uatx board.
Another option I'm seriously exploring is NZXT's BLD service. A little spendy, but the reviews are very positive and they're not too far away from me here in California if there was a return issue. They're only about an hour away in good traffic.
This has been an ongoing thing for a long time. Go ahead and buy one if you want. No third party repair shop will touch one. That's why you can find them in the trash when dumpster diving. The MoBo's, cases and PSU's cannot be replaced except by HP and it usually isn't worth the trouble or expense once the machine is out of warranty. So people throw them away. Then people looking for cheap components strip HDD's and RAM out of them. Go bug a FreeGeek if you don't believe me.
This is not entirely true. I have an old HP Pavilion p6710f Desktop that I got 7 or 8 years ago and still use as a second computer. It has been worked on by my local repair shop a couple of times including replacing the PSU with a heavier duty one and installing a GTX 970. It is still going strong although the last time it was in for repairs the repair shop felt that I might need a new MoBo before too much longer and they wouldn't be able to do that
Maybe you can replace the PSU with a standard ATX if the case is roomy enough. I've never tried. The one's they sell aren't. I assumed the mounting points weren't standard, which is why your local shop couldn't replace the Mobo.
IIRC I did have to be sure the replacement PSU was not to big. This is the one I got and it fit easily in the original case: https://www.evga.com/products/Specs/PSU.aspx?pn=245edb53-5e08-42d4-89ca-3a58526de282
I'm pretty sure that when Dell bought Alienware they switched to standard components. The gaming computers guys were pretty upset since at the time you could buy a good gaming PC from Alienware at a very reasonable markup. People, rightfully, assumed Dell would destroy the brand but Dell tried to assuage those fears by going to standard components in their PC's. That may not have lasted with standard Dell's. I haven't seen one in a while.
Hello!
So I have been watching this thread with interest. I see basically three camps in the subject of prebuilt computers.
1. Those who won't buy them. They build their own or have somebody else build them custom.
2. Those who will buy them because in their opinion in the moment, it's the pragmatic choice. Reasons all appear in prior posts, so I won't repeat them here.
3. People who pretty much couldn't care one way or another.
For myself, I'm in category 1.
For you, I'm in category 3.
My advice is for anybody making this decision, you should make sure that you are fully aware of the pros and cons of either 1 or 2. Then make your choice and move forward accordingly.
If you choose 1, just know that you may need to be your own tech support. If you are willing to undertake that responsibility, regardless of cost in your labor, money, or time diagnosing, fixing, or waiting for stuff, then it's very possibly worthwhile for you. I know it is worth it for me.
If you choose 2, just know that you will be reliant on other people for your technical support. If you are willing to accept the possibility that they may not be competent or capable, or that they could go out of business, or just start ignoring your calls, knowing that with that could come additional cost in terms of your labor, money, or time waiting for stuff, then this is possibly worthwhile for you.
If you are willing and financially able to accept the odds for either option 1 or 2 going south on you, then go for it. I wouldn't bother spending a lot of time here or on any forum trying to convince others that my choice is better than theirs. It's just better for me. I'll share the reasons, but after that I'll let people decide.
Well, except for backups. I'm militant about backups, and I always will be.
But do share your reasons (because that's how we all learn). Then move forward and own your decision. The next time you need a new computer (and if you live long enough, there likely WILL be a next time), you can do it the same way or you can choose a new path. I find it funny that so many people today seem to think that only one way is the right way. But one day down the road, maybe today's way is not the best way, given you and your particular situation. I too might one day change my mind.
Thanks for listening, and good luck to the OP.
Actually I was just looking at a Alienware out of curiosity (due to this thread) and a person answered a question by saying the motherboard in a particular AW was proprietary motherboard made by Dell. I was looking for info on this, as it doesn't seem overly outlandish in price if you are a member of Costco. https://www.costco.com/Alienware-Aurora-Gaming-Desktop---Intel-Core-i7---GeForce-GTX-1080-Ti.product.100405348.html
It is liquid cooled, has slots for 2 GPUs, and I found it has a 850 Watt PSU. The pic shows 4 memory slots. But that PSU is mounted in a weird way, and again, that proprietary motherboard.
Thank you. I'm either going HP or BLD from NZXT. Both offer comparable prices, but BLD seems to offer more customization for the same price. And for all of the HP bashers, I've had 5 HP PCs, both desktop and laptop, plus an X2 tablet, and they've all been wonderful machines without a problem. I think that some brands get bad reps for various reasons and then can't escape them. For myself, I've never had an issue with prebuilts in general, nor with HP in particular. They work, they're economical, and they are convenient.
Bob
That is no MoBo I've ver seen. I'll say that. But Dell is up to something there. That's a locked processor. Why is it watercooled at all? Maybe there is literally no airflow with e PSU right on top of it I guess. But that adds a lot cost to that machine simply to make the case smaller.
That's a demonstration of why I simply would never touch a prebuilt. You're paying for gimmicks. I know that an i7 8700 is not capable of being overclocked, only intel chips that end in k can be. But many consumers will see watercooled and think high performce overclockable machine when that is definitely not what they're getting here. And the watercooling is strictly on the CPU so the 1080ti is in that cramped no airflow case relying on its own fans and based on the illustration, which might be total BS, the case vents out the top front which is blocked by the PSU so I have no idea how the GPU vents or if it simply has to force its heat out past the PSU. But it is clear there is no airflow out the back and it does look like the case is setup to be intake on the fron and side leaving the exhaust to be top only. So I think one 1080ti might not throttle in gaming but 2 1080ti's in long renders? I have strong doubts.
NZXT is a brand that makes very good quality components. I have no experience with their prebuilts but if they're using their own components it would be hard to go wrong with them.
That's prolly where I'm going. With a 10% Black Friday discount, I'll get more than I would from HP at the same price. This isn't to say that I'm dissing HP at all. I love their Cylon-esque 880 case. I'm just figuring the economics. The impending tariffs are also driving this decision. While I don't see PCs going up 25% in price as the tariffs depend in some circumstances upon location of final manufacture, I do see them rising 10%, for certain. I'm looking at a Ryzen 2700x, liquid cooling, 32 GB of 3200 mhz RAM (I might take it to 3600 mhz), multiple hard drives and SSDs, a 2080, and yes, a very nice top end psu. I'm going to hate losing the built in optical drive and media reader, but I'll make do. There are multiple build videos of NZXT/BLD on Youtube, and they look quite good.
Bob
As far as the auroura goes, I have an R7:
* I think the MoBo is proprietary.
* It comes in air cooled also for the I7 8700, and I5 8400. Not a single drop of watercooling in mine. Dell does require water cooling on the Overclocked 8700k, 8600k, and 8086k though. To be honest I think an i7 8700 is fine, Graphics card is far more important to rendering.
* It has a front panel intake fan infront of the graphics cards and an exhaust fan out the top. The right panel is an intake also.
Okay, I just pulled the trigger. I think I need a drink. And it isn't evenlunch time. Total cost with a 10% discount was $2885. I've NEVER had a computer remotely this powerful. If all goes well, it should arrive by around Tuesday-ish.
I want to thank everyone who chimed in. I really do. Now, if this thing can't render, do 3D CAD work, and play some nifty games then nothing can.
It should be a good rendering unit.
I myself went with a 1080 Ti, I was not willing to put out 1200$ for a 2080ti but wanted 11 gb graphics ram on the card and a 1080ti fit in my budget without sacrificing other items I wanted.. I run the monitor on a 1070ti as its day to day card and save the 1080ti for rendering only. With 32 gig of ram I want to see how it handles playing a Video game on a 1070 Ti while rendering with the 1080ti only.
The 1070 is certainly still a viable card. You'll certainly be able to game at very high FPS. I wouldn't have spent the moolah on the 2080 if it wasn't at MSRP with no markups. BLD charges a flat $150 build/ship fee, and that plus the 10% off was what allowed the 2080. Its way overpriced but hey, Merry Christmas to me.
Depending on the resolution and maximum FPS of your monitor the 1070ti is probably more than enough for your needs. If you have a 1080p 60 Hz monitor the 1070ti will more than adequately feed that in any title on the market. at 1440p you might not quite hit 60 fps in everything at the highest settings and at 4k you might only hit 30 fps in most things at high settings rather than at highest or ultra. But I doubt you're a 4k gamer if you didn't already have a 1080ti.
Are they overclocking that beast for you? That 240mm AIO is serious overkill if you don't overclock the 2700x. If they don't I can walk you through the basics of putting in a moderate overclock so you're not wasting the money you spent on that.They really should have just sold you the R7 2700 which comes with a perfectly adequate cooler and saved you a fair chunk of change. The performance difference between the two chips is negligible.
I know, but I have the cash and... I have never had a top of the line PC so I went for everything, all in. Most things in my house are hand me downs, so I wanted something completely, absolutely new and top shelf. It is overclockable, but I'm not going to worry about it right now. A month from now, sure, and thank you for the offer. Right now, I just want to get it up and running and all of the programs transferred over. Gotta order Laplink PCMover or somethign similar. I will buy that from HP and get the 6X airline miles they're offering today, plus some ink.
Bob
My monitor won't support 4k gaming. Its a 8 year old ACER x203h. A new monitor is my next purchase.
You are correct, not a 4k gamer. I have a 1080ti in addition to the 1070ti but am saving the 1080 ti for rendering and using the 1070 ti for everyday use and gaming.
at 720p 60fps, that's what your monitor supports, that 1070ti is more than enough. You should be able to go up to 1080p 120 hz or 1440p 60 hz no problem. I wouldn't bother with 4k, honestly I'm fairly disappointed with gamingon my 4k monitor. My 1080ti rarely hits 40 fps and that's just frustrating.
I know you want to game, but if you are ever not gaming while rendering, you should use that 1070ti! That will make a big difference in your render times if both cards run. Your PC will remain usable as long as the CPU is not rendering as well. You have nothing to lose by enabling the 1070ti.
I saw benchmarks that placed the 1070ti slightly faster than the 1080 for rendering Iray, it is a very capable card.
I built my own rig mind you not with gaming in mind. I’m not a gamer strictly 3D art but I built a very good machine that fit my needs for about $1400 dollars.
It’s not a high power gaming rig but I love it and it handles DS and Iray well.
But for me and this Walmart rig like many have said I’d need more info on specs before seriously pulling the trigger on something like this.
We talk about the Walmart rig in another thread, assuming you are talking about the Overpowered line. Gamers Nexus posted a breakdown today, and it is BAD. The links are in that thread, but long story short, do NOT go anywhere near the Overpowered brand.