Nvidia Ampere (2080 Ti, etc. r… > > >Nvidia Ampere (2080 Ti, etc. r…

Nvidia Ampere (2080 Ti, etc. replacements) and other rumors...

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  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    Richard Haseltine said:
    nicstt said:
    Leana said:
    NotAnArtist said:

    Oh! Just wondering: Does DS usually have the ability to render Iray, albeit poorly, with newly-released cards, or will the 30xx's be totally unable to render in Iray until a new version of DS comes out?

    For 10xx and 20xx new versions of Iray and DS were needed (and that took quite a bit of time for Iray to support them IIRC). No one but Nvidia could say whether or not it will be needed for 30xx, but I personally wouldn't bet on them being supported on release.

    10 series took ages iirc; 20 series was if not imediately then close

    The 20x0 cards came in two steps - basic support was a lot quicker than the 10x0s, but not instant by any means, full support taking advantage of the RTX cores was quite a bit longer (but I can't recall how it compared with the 10x0 release - I know we had it before I bought my 2080Ti at the end of last year).

    Yes that shounds about right, although I thought RTX complete was longer than that?

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,456
    tj_1ca9500b said:

    Where's that meme of a big salt factory...

    OK, HUGE Grain of salt (article even says this), but if true, there may be some happy campers around here tomorrow.  If not, well you were warned, don't get your hopes up yet!

    https://wccftech.com/rumor-nvidia-rtx-3090-performance-slides-leaked/

    Almost 2x performance over 2080 Ti if leaked slides pan out.  If not, well that's why it's tagged RUMOR.

    1 day plus 1 hour to go, plus factor in initial blah blah at the beginning of the presentaiton time....

    That was interesting. It would be nice if there was an CC0 animated 3 minute iRay 3D scene @ 4K that they ran such performance benchmarks between GPUs against. Games are OCD like in their optimizations for specific GPU HW so aren't always the best indicator of general purpose overall performance improvements and likewise conversely GPU HW & SW being optimized for specific gaming scenarios. 

  • RobinsonRobinson Posts: 751
    edited August 2020

    Looks like the "leaks" were true, about the RAM I mean.  Recent "leaks" (a "leak" is Youtuber horses... for "I spoke to a guy from the marketing department") say there are two cards on each tier, one with more RAM than the other.  For example, the 3070, which by the way is as powerful as the current 2080 Ti, has an 8Gb (as the 2070 does) and a 16Gb option.  This is pretty good actually.  I'm priced in 3070 range and if it's £100 more for 8Gb more RAM on the card I'll bite.  Also still reported that the 2nd gen RT units are 3 - 4 x faster than current RT units.   If the 3070 is, say, £500, or £600 - £650 for the 16Gb version I think I'll probably get one.

    Also RIP 2080 Ti ebay prices.  On the other hand, you'll be able to buy four of those on ebay for the price of one 3090 so there's that too!

    Edit: If you're interested the NVIDIA official "launch" is tomorrow: you can watch it live.

    Post edited by Robinson on
  • outrider42outrider42 Posts: 3,679
    tj_1ca9500b said:

    Where's that meme of a big salt factory...

    OK, HUGE Grain of salt (article even says this), but if true, there may be some happy campers around here tomorrow.  If not, well you were warned, don't get your hopes up yet!

    https://wccftech.com/rumor-nvidia-rtx-3090-performance-slides-leaked/

    Almost 2x performance over 2080 Ti if leaked slides pan out.  If not, well that's why it's tagged RUMOR.

    1 day plus 1 hour to go, plus factor in initial blah blah at the beginning of the presentaiton time....

    All 3 of those games are using ray tracing, and rumors have long speculated that Ampere ray tracing is vastly improved. So yeah, even if these slides are fake, that would be about right where I expect performance to be anyway for these specific games. Remember, using real time ray tracing with Turing was a huge performance hit. None of these game played a 60 frames per second with ray tracing on at 4k with Turing. Not even close. So doubling frames rates in Control might actually break 60 fps then, LOL.

    The "traditional" performance of Ampere will not be quite as impressive, so games that do not use ray tracing will not see that high of a performance gain. Rumors suggest 40-50% for such games.

    But of course, we are talking about Daz Iray here, not video games. Well lucky for us those ray tracing cores make a huge difference for Iray. Of all software out there, Iray showed some of the most benefit to having ray tracing cores enabled, the difference is profound. Just look at the benchmarks in the bench thread. A 2060 beats the 1080ti at Iray...the big bad 1080ti. The 2060 does NOT beat the 1080ti at most games. So yeah, I think you guys will see some pretty big uplifts in performance going from the 2080ti to a 3090. I've been saying that for a while. We of all people should be fairly pleased with Ampere, a lot more than most gamers will be, that's for sure.

    Of course I wish the prices could be better, but if the 3090 is $1400 or $1500, well that would make it the cheapest 24GB GPU ever released...so food for thought. The Titan RTX was $2500 and Quadro...well Quadro has always been absurdly priced. 

    A lot of people believe the 3080 will get a 20GB variant, and I think that is quite possible, but not immediately. I also believe the 3070 16GB exists, but it has no release date and might not get released. Like I said before, this depends entirely on AMD's competition as to whether the 3070 16GB ever gets released. If Nvidia doesn't need it, they will not release it, simple as that. The same may be true of the 3080ti.

  • tj_1ca9500btj_1ca9500b Posts: 2,057
    edited September 2020

    @outrider42

    If the 'close to 2x performance' thing holds true for ray-tracing, and by extension for rendering, at that point you are looking at consolidating two cheaper cards into one larger one with more memory, so that $1500 price tag will be a bit easier to swallow.  Of course, the speed demons around here such as myself will want to strap in a second card, and maybe a third, to nearly double and triple said performance as monetary and power budgets allow...

    Four cards would be nice, but that might require re-wiring the house... and maybe winning the lottery.

    I'll probably watch the livestream tomorrow, but as noted it'll very likely be a few weeks still until we actually see the new cards in the retail channels in sufficient numbers, according to all reports I've seen to date.  And if it ends up taking 4-6 months again to get the cards working in Daz Studio in a non-beta environment, like it did last time, well we can afford to wait for market saturation, at which point prices should normalize and the hardware scalpers will move on to the next new and shiny objects.

    Post edited by tj_1ca9500b on
  • NylonGirlNylonGirl Posts: 2,013

    I find myself wondering if it would be more practical to get a high memory graphics card or just not use dForce hair. But I'm leaning toward the graphics card.

  • Ghosty12Ghosty12 Posts: 2,077

    Looking at what is coming, I do hope they release a 16GB version of the 3070 due to wattage and thermals, since the 3070 will not draw as much.. Although the 3080 might be okay if they release a 20GB version, as 10GB would for most things still not be enough.. And one thing a lot of folks will have to do is to get a decent high quality PSU, and at least 850watts minimum so it has been said..

  • outrider42outrider42 Posts: 3,679
    tj_1ca9500b said:

    @outrider42

    If the 'close to 2x performance' thing holds true for ray-tracing, and by extension for rendering, at that point you are looking at consolidating two cheaper cards into one larger one with more memory, so that $1500 price tag will be a bit easier to swallow.  Of course, the speed demons around here such as myself will want to strap in a second card, and maybe a third, to nearly double and triple said performance as monetary and power budgets allow...

    Four cards would be nice, but that might require re-wiring the house... and maybe winning the lottery.

    I'll probably watch the livestream tomorrow, but as noted it'll very likely be a few weeks still until we actually see the new cards in the retail channels in sufficient numbers, according to all reports I've seen to date.  And if it ends up taking 4-6 months again to get the cards working in Daz Studio in a non-beta environment, like it did last time, well we can afford to wait for market saturation, at which point prices should normalize and the hardware scalpers will move on to the next new and shiny objects.

    Yeah, in this case the two "cheaper" cards would be 2080tis, LOL. If the 3090 is $1400, then for about $200-300 more than a 2080ti, you can get double Iray performance and more than double VRAM. And I believe actual Iray performance might even be better than that. Because again, Iray has proven to benefit better than gaming, even with RTX turned on.

    Even if you bought two 2080tis and used Nvlink, some data is still shared between them, so you would not even get a full 22GB. Only texture data is split, not geometry. Plus while the 3090 appears to use more power, it would certainly not be as much power as two 2080tis. The 3090 is all round a superior option.

    Some time before we talked about Nvlink possibly giving Turing additional life after Ampere launching. But if these things are true, and I believe many of them will be, then the 3090 will be so much faster than even Nvlink cannot save two 2080tis. The only GPUs that might make sense for this argument are the 2080 and 2070 Super if they are low enough in price compared to their Ampere counterparts.

  • TheMysteryIsThePointTheMysteryIsThePoint Posts: 3,083
    outrider42 said:
    Even if you bought two 2080tis and used Nvlink, some data is still shared between them, so you would not even get a full 22GB. Only texture data is split, not geometry.

    Not that I disagree with any part of your argument, but geometry data is miniscule compared to texture data, especially in Daz Studio with multiple 4 and even 8K maps.

  • Ghosty12Ghosty12 Posts: 2,077
    TheMysteryIsThePoint said:
    outrider42 said:
    Even if you bought two 2080tis and used Nvlink, some data is still shared between them, so you would not even get a full 22GB. Only texture data is split, not geometry.

    Not that I disagree with any part of your argument, but geometry data is miniscule compared to texture data, especially in Daz Studio with multiple 4 and even 8K maps.

    Not really just look at some of the later dforce hair products, have three Genesis 8 figures all with dforce hair in a scene then watch the geometry data skyrocket to over 3gig.. I know this because I tried it and it caused Daz Studio to crash before it even had a chance to load in the texture data..  Though it is true that textures are a pain to deal with especially if they are super detailed, if not for products like Scene Optimizer that do a awesome job of dealing with rampant ultra detailed textures..

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,456

    I think they need 32, 48, and 64GB VRAM versions but that's not happening in the next year or two, well maybe 32GB.

  • TheMysteryIsThePointTheMysteryIsThePoint Posts: 3,083
    Ghosty12 said:
    TheMysteryIsThePoint said:
    outrider42 said:
    Even if you bought two 2080tis and used Nvlink, some data is still shared between them, so you would not even get a full 22GB. Only texture data is split, not geometry.

    Not that I disagree with any part of your argument, but geometry data is miniscule compared to texture data, especially in Daz Studio with multiple 4 and even 8K maps.

    Not really just look at some of the later dforce hair products, have three Genesis 8 figures all with dforce hair in a scene then watch the geometry data skyrocket to over 3gig.. I know this because I tried it and it caused Daz Studio to crash before it even had a chance to load in the texture data..  Though it is true that textures are a pain to deal with especially if they are super detailed, if not for products like Scene Optimizer that do a awesome job of dealing with rampant ultra detailed textures..

    Come to think of it, I stand corrected. When I export to Blender, I never export dForce hair as a mesh, but always convert it to a Particle system, and it is amazing how light they are. I had actually forgotten what is was like to deal with it in Daz Studio, but your having said that reminded me.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    Robinson said:

    Looks like the "leaks" were true, about the RAM I mean.  Recent "leaks" (a "leak" is Youtuber horses... for "I spoke to a guy from the marketing department") say there are two cards on each tier, one with more RAM than the other.  For example, the 3070, which by the way is as powerful as the current 2080 Ti, has an 8Gb (as the 2070 does) and a 16Gb option.  This is pretty good actually.  I'm priced in 3070 range and if it's £100 more for 8Gb more RAM on the card I'll bite.  Also still reported that the 2nd gen RT units are 3 - 4 x faster than current RT units.   If the 3070 is, say, £500, or £600 - £650 for the 16Gb version I think I'll probably get one.

    Also RIP 2080 Ti ebay prices.  On the other hand, you'll be able to buy four of those on ebay for the price of one 3090 so there's that too!

    Edit: If you're interested the NVIDIA official "launch" is tomorrow: you can watch it live.

    This made me chuckle. Tough for those hoping to cash in though.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    outrider42 said:
    tj_1ca9500b said:

    Where's that meme of a big salt factory...

    OK, HUGE Grain of salt (article even says this), but if true, there may be some happy campers around here tomorrow.  If not, well you were warned, don't get your hopes up yet!

    https://wccftech.com/rumor-nvidia-rtx-3090-performance-slides-leaked/

    Almost 2x performance over 2080 Ti if leaked slides pan out.  If not, well that's why it's tagged RUMOR.

    1 day plus 1 hour to go, plus factor in initial blah blah at the beginning of the presentaiton time....

    All 3 of those games are using ray tracing, and rumors have long speculated that Ampere ray tracing is vastly improved. So yeah, even if these slides are fake, that would be about right where I expect performance to be anyway for these specific games. Remember, using real time ray tracing with Turing was a huge performance hit. None of these game played a 60 frames per second with ray tracing on at 4k with Turing. Not even close. So doubling frames rates in Control might actually break 60 fps then, LOL.

    The "traditional" performance of Ampere will not be quite as impressive, so games that do not use ray tracing will not see that high of a performance gain. Rumors suggest 40-50% for such games.

    But of course, we are talking about Daz Iray here, not video games. Well lucky for us those ray tracing cores make a huge difference for Iray. Of all software out there, Iray showed some of the most benefit to having ray tracing cores enabled, the difference is profound. Just look at the benchmarks in the bench thread. A 2060 beats the 1080ti at Iray...the big bad 1080ti. The 2060 does NOT beat the 1080ti at most games. So yeah, I think you guys will see some pretty big uplifts in performance going from the 2080ti to a 3090. I've been saying that for a while. We of all people should be fairly pleased with Ampere, a lot more than most gamers will be, that's for sure.

    Of course I wish the prices could be better, but if the 3090 is $1400 or $1500, well that would make it the cheapest 24GB GPU ever released...so food for thought. The Titan RTX was $2500 and Quadro...well Quadro has always been absurdly priced. 

    A lot of people believe the 3080 will get a 20GB variant, and I think that is quite possible, but not immediately. I also believe the 3070 16GB exists, but it has no release date and might not get released. Like I said before, this depends entirely on AMD's competition as to whether the 3070 16GB ever gets released. If Nvidia doesn't need it, they will not release it, simple as that. The same may be true of the 3080ti.

    I could actually be tempted with this, although it remains to be see what appears and what the cost is.

  • Daz Jack TomalinDaz Jack Tomalin Posts: 13,624

    I sense a lot of disappointed people later..:)

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    Jack Tomalin said:

    I sense a lot of disappointed people later..:)

    Well, how close to reality the leaks are, and how close to reality the wild hopes are - is soon to be revealed, or at least a marketting deptartment is going to have its say.

    I want facts from 3rd party reviewers.

  • TheMysteryIsThePointTheMysteryIsThePoint Posts: 3,083
    edited September 2020
    nicstt said:
    Jack Tomalin said:

    I sense a lot of disappointed people later..:)

    Well, how close to reality the leaks are, and how close to reality the wild hopes are - is soon to be revealed, or at least a marketting deptartment is going to have its say.

    I want facts from 3rd party reviewers.

    You're right. But at least the two most important thing to me are perfectly objective: How much VRAM, and how much $$$. Hopefully this will be known in a few hours.

    Post edited by TheMysteryIsThePoint on
  • RobinsonRobinson Posts: 751
    nonesuch00 said:

    I think they need 32, 48, and 64GB VRAM versions but that's not happening in the next year or two, well maybe 32GB.

    I think the Quadro line will go that high (32 or 48 at least).  But they'll be hella expensive.  IDK when they'll release them.  Perhaps we won't hear in the livestream today. 

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715

    I thought one of the Quadros already goes that high: 48GB; think that one costs a kidney though.

  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,362
    nicstt said:

    I thought one of the Quadros already goes that high: 48GB; think that one costs a kidney though.

    Yep, the RTX 8000.

    https://www.amazon.com/PNY-VCQRTX8000-PB-NVIDIA-Quadro-Graphic/dp/B07NH3HKG9

  • DripDrip Posts: 1,209
    Gordig said:
    nicstt said:

    I thought one of the Quadros already goes that high: 48GB; think that one costs a kidney though.

    Yep, the RTX 8000.

    https://www.amazon.com/PNY-VCQRTX8000-PB-NVIDIA-Quadro-Graphic/dp/B07NH3HKG9

    Oh my, those reviews are worth the click!

  • duckbombduckbomb Posts: 585
    Gordig said:
    nicstt said:

    I thought one of the Quadros already goes that high: 48GB; think that one costs a kidney though.

    Yep, the RTX 8000.

    https://www.amazon.com/PNY-VCQRTX8000-PB-NVIDIA-Quadro-Graphic/dp/B07NH3HKG9

    I actually picked one of these up last year during a business unit consolidation at work, just so I wouldn't have to play the VRAM game.  I know it's stupid expensive off the shelf, and I know I'd come off as an elitist if I recommended it, but even though it's not the fastest horse in the shed it's SUPER NICE to just let my scenes grow as needed and never worry about it.

    Again, I understand how unrealistic it is, mine was just an opportunity of circumstance LOL.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,456
    Gordig said:
    nicstt said:

    I thought one of the Quadros already goes that high: 48GB; think that one costs a kidney though.

    Yep, the RTX 8000.

    https://www.amazon.com/PNY-VCQRTX8000-PB-NVIDIA-Quadro-Graphic/dp/B07NH3HKG9

    Wow, so it's not like they don't understand the technical need. Now we paupers have to wait for them I guess.

  • tj_1ca9500btj_1ca9500b Posts: 2,057

    18 minutes plus intro blah blah time to go...

  • robertswwwrobertswww Posts: 795

    It's live... https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/special-event/

  • Ghosty12Ghosty12 Posts: 2,077
    edited September 2020

    Watching now and what I am seeing so far has blown me away.. With what looks like better cloth dynamics and audio to facial animation feature too..

    Official pricing and specs: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/introducing-rtx-30-series-graphics-cards/

    https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/30-series/compare/

    3090 24 GB GDDR6X 10496 Cuda Cores $1499

    3080 10 GB GDDR6X 8704 Cuda Cores $699

    3070 8 GB GDDR6 5888 Cuda Cores $499

     

    Post edited by Ghosty12 on
  • tj_1ca9500btj_1ca9500b Posts: 2,057
    edited September 2020

    3080 10GB twice as fast as 2080, 56 RT TFLOPS starting at - $699 Sept 17th

    3070 8 GB faster than 2080 Ti 40 RT TFLOPS - $499 October

    3090 24GB $1499.  Can do 8K 60FPS 69 RT TFLOPS Sept 24th

     

    Post edited by tj_1ca9500b on
  • duckbombduckbomb Posts: 585
    tj_1ca9500b said:

    3080 10GB twice as fast as 2080 starting at $699 Sept 17th

    3070 8 GB faster than 2080 Ti $499

    3090 24GB will $1499.  Can do 8K 60FPS Sept 24th no other performance comparison so far.

    This is a strange statement... did they not say what could play at 8K 60FPS?  Minecraft?  Cyberpunk?  Solitaire?  I'm not as fluent as all of you when it comes to this, so maybe something is implied, and I'm just missing it.

  • billyben_0077a25354billyben_0077a25354 Posts: 771

    No more rumors, now it is time to wait for BIG NAVI and comparrision reviews to see if AMD can knock down the price or force some higher memory midranger cards or I ahyve to win the lottery to get a couple of 3090s and a Threadripper board & Processor with lots & lots of memory.

     

  • tj_1ca9500btj_1ca9500b Posts: 2,057
    edited September 2020
    duckbomb said:
    tj_1ca9500b said:

    3080 10GB twice as fast as 2080 starting at $699 Sept 17th

    3070 8 GB faster than 2080 Ti $499

    3090 24GB will $1499.  Can do 8K 60FPS Sept 24th no other performance comparison so far.

    This is a strange statement... did they not say what could play at 8K 60FPS?  Minecraft?  Cyberpunk?  Solitaire?  I'm not as fluent as all of you when it comes to this, so maybe something is implied, and I'm just missing it.

    Anandtech has slides:

    https://www.anandtech.com/show/16060/the-nvidia-geforce-special-event-2020-live-blog

    I edited my last post with a bit more info.  To your question:

    69 RT TFlops for 3090 vs 56 RT TFLOPs for 3080.  So a bit faster probably...

    That 3080 Price is tempting, but of course that's just a starting point.  Custom models will cost more...

    Post edited by tj_1ca9500b on
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Nvidia Ampere (2080 Ti, etc. r… > > >Nvidia Ampere (2080 Ti, etc. r…