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NFT and the Future of Digital … Daz 3D Forums > General > Non-Fungible Token (NFT) Art>NFT and the Future of Digital …

NFT and the Future of Digital Content

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  • HylasHylas Posts: 5,127
    March 2021

    Chaosophia said:

    Seriously. this is really starting to smell like a crusty pair of rendered week straight worn underwear. 

    I recommend Grungy Threads! cheeky

  • SeraSera Posts: 1,675
    March 2021

    BUT WHAT DOES OTHER "AVENUES MEAN"?!

     

    (I'm not yelling at the mods. Just the sky. )

  • Jason GalterioJason Galterio Posts: 2,562
    March 2021

    certaintree38 said:

    BUT WHAT DOES OTHER "AVENUES MEAN"?!

     

    (I'm not yelling at the mods. Just the sky. )

    I think the Mods have left the building.

  • TriCounterTriCounter Posts: 575
    March 2021 edited March 2021

    Personally, I find cryptocurrency to be an abhorrent waste of resources....However I would be happy to buy some Non-fungible icons in my smart content for Daz Studio.

    Post edited by TriCounter on March 2021
  • PetraPetra Posts: 1,156
    March 2021 edited March 2021

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Jason Galterio said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    certaintree38 said:

    If someone buys an NFT do they have the right to put it on their corporate website? I'm just curious about what rights are actually being sold here.

    I think so, but remember that the NFT isn't the image (or whatever) itself.

    See, this is where the confusion is Richard. You are contrradicting yourself.

    Earlier you said that DAZ will not sell gallery images.

    Now you're agreeing with most of us by saying that DAZ isn't selling images, they are selling the NFTs,

    This is the information that should have be finalized and approved, then posted when this whole affair began.

    and Daz_Jessica has confirmed that daz won't use gallery images without written permission.

    I sure hope so because I do not want anything to do with NFT.

     

    Post edited by Petra on March 2021
  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,313
    March 2021

    ArtAngel said:

    NFTS are non-refundable tokens.

    For the record, NFT stands for non-fungible token, meaning that one cannot be substituted for another.  People are non-fungible.  Dollars are fungible. 

  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 8,018
    March 2021 edited March 2021

    .And that is why RealEstate is called real.

    Post edited by FirstBastion on March 2021
  • rekrek Posts: 45
    March 2021

    dortybassa said:

    ....However I would be happy yo buy some Non-fungible icons in my smart content for Daz Studio.

    I see what you did there. laugh (I also want my icons back!)

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,701
    March 2021

    I don't do tone policing. People have a right to express concern about something they have strong feelings about. I don't particularly feel sorry for DAZ Store. No one forced them into this new market.

  • Jason GalterioJason Galterio Posts: 2,562
    March 2021

    Last post and then I am taking a break...

    DAZ's quality issues in the last 6 to 8 months HAS driven me to other vendors. This latest development just caps off the steam that has been building for me.

    Renderosity, Kitbash, Hivewire, CGaxis, etc...  I've spent hundreds of dollars at these places since mid-summer last year just because I figured that if I was going to have to trouble shoot things myself, I might as well try other assets.

    I just haven't bothered to mention it because it wasn't worth it. Now I am mentioning because I want DAZ to hear it.

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 3,793
    March 2021

    Sevrin said:

    ArtAngel said:

    NFTS are non-refundable tokens.

    For the record, NFT stands for non-fungible token, meaning that one cannot be substituted for another.  People are non-fungible.  Dollars are fungible. 

    With ~ 8 billion people on earth and with the way corporations treat people, I sometimes wonder if people are truly non-fungible.

  • MelissaGTMelissaGT Posts: 2,611
    March 2021 edited March 2021

    BradCarsten said:

    I also think that NFT's sound interesting, and seem like a fun avenue to explore. Yeah, you can just copy an image, but, as with bitcoin, something is only worth whatever people are willing to pay, and if people value the idea of a digital asset that can be traced back to the original creator, then who am I to say that they shouldn't buy it. 

    But can it? Just like with much of Google images, who is to say someone doesn't go to your gallery, save the picture to their drive, and then upload it somewhere else to sell as an NFT? Digitial artwork is stolen every day, there's no way to completely avoid it...but this smells like an actual invitation to steal. I might as well just hang a sign on my door listing out the valuable items in my home all while leaving the door propped open for cat burglars. 

    Post edited by MelissaGT on March 2021
  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024
    March 2021

    melissastjames said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    certaintree38 said:

    If someone buys an NFT do they have the right to put it on their corporate website? I'm just curious about what rights are actually being sold here.

    I think so, but remember that the NFT isn't the image (or whatever) itself.

    So again...what is the point exactly, short of scamming people on buying nothing? If I want a piece of artwork, wouldn't both myself and the artist be better served if I licensed the piece directly from the artist? This still makes no sense to me...and I'm being told it makes no sense exactly because I'm trying to apply logic to something that has no logic.  

    I got it... These "Tokens" are trading cards... You can make a cards about anything and start selling them to intellectually challenged people with too much money...

  • Panzer EmeraldPanzer Emerald Posts: 727
    March 2021

    BradCarsten said:

     

    I think that this is a fun idea that the good folk at Daz are running with. 

    If you consider destroying the environment, ripping off other artists, and having cryptobros harass you for even expressing doubt over the concept "fun", then sure, you go ahead and have all the fun you want. 

  • TriCounterTriCounter Posts: 575
    March 2021

    BradCarsten said:

    My opinion may be unpopular here, but I don't want to shy away from expressing it over possible backlash, or we end up with groupthink. I hate mining as much as the next person and detest the use of graphics cards to do it, but I think that crypto and blockchain is interesting. As with any other new technology, it always starts out in a rough state, but will be streamlined as issues like environmental impact are taken into consideration. We've already seen positive movement in that direction with Ethereum, but I don't resent the technology. We never know what industries could open up as people explore and build on the idea. It may come to nothing, but it may also change the world as we have seen so often when people start getting excited about a new idea. 

    I also think that NFT's sound interesting, and seem like a fun avenue to explore. Yeah, you can just copy an image, but, as with bitcoin, something is only worth whatever people are willing to pay, and if people value the idea of a digital asset that can be traced back to the original creator, then who am I to say that they shouldn't buy it. 

    I think that this is a fun idea that the good folk at Daz are running with. 

    I do think your reasoning has real merit, so please don't take this as flaming, it's just what popped in my head first :)

    There used to be a brand of Vacuum cleaner called the Kirby, I remember we had a salesman call round in the 80's and try a hard sell on a poor working class household.  It had attachments, like a shaver.  The guy would demonstrate by shaving some of your dad's leg hair (or your mom's).  It was fun and cool, a vacuum that could shave you too.

    Ultimately art is always going to try out new and interesting fads.... but rich people collect trinkets and non-tangible items, the rest of us want to look, touch and play with others creativity

  • HylasHylas Posts: 5,127
    March 2021

    Sevrin said:

      People are non-fungible. 

    Bold claim to make. I´d like to see the blockchain of those "people".

  • ArtAngelArtAngel Posts: 1,828
    March 2021 edited March 2021

    Sevrin said:

    ArtAngel said:

    NFTS are non-refundable tokens.

    For the record, NFT stands for non-fungible token, meaning that one cannot be substituted for another.  People are non-fungible.  Dollars are fungible. 

    I get that , and thank you, I'll go back reread and see if it needs clarification, which I am suspecting it does. I also gave the example of NFT being identical to tearing a dollar bill in half, and giving it to someone,  which make that dollar bill non-fungible/non-redeemable. If I buy a NFT it is also non-refundable. Also one could debate the whole dollar bill fungible debate if one dollar was a Cayman Islands dollar, versus a Fijian dollar, currently with worth almost half a US dollar bill. A NFT token is simply a unique cryptographical token that cannot be reproduced.

    Post edited by ArtAngel on March 2021
  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 8,018
    March 2021

    PerttiA said:

    You can make a cards about anything and start selling them to intellectually challenged people with too much money...

     Greed and stupidity are often found together and flaunted on the net.

  • 3drendero3drendero Posts: 2,029
    March 2021
    Here is a warning about NFTs that are links, that can break easily: https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/25/22349242/nft-metadata-explained-art-crypto-urls-links-ipfs
  • Matt_CastleMatt_Castle Posts: 2,753
    March 2021

    BradCarsten said:

    I think that crypto and blockchain is interesting.

    I don't entirely disagree, but if it's interesting, it's interesting in the same way as military history.

    Something like the Battle of Cannae is fascinating to hear about - Hannibal managed to flank, surround and practically annihilate a Roman force that outnumbered his force nearly two to one - but that doesn't mean I want a war to happen.

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379
    March 2021

    Could you create an NFT for a .duf file? And, in that way, sell an "original" of a character?

  • markgoode77markgoode77 Posts: 343
    March 2021

     

    There used to be a brand of Vacuum cleaner called the Kirby, I remember we had a salesman call round in the 80's and try a hard sell on a poor working class household.  It had attachments, like a shaver.  The guy would demonstrate by shaving some of your dad's leg hair (or your mom's).  It was fun and cool, a vacuum that could shave you too.

    I remember those.  There was a sales trick they used to do: they'd show you an empty vac, fit the pipe and attachments, and then vacuum your bed.  The filth that they then poured out of the cleaner sickened many people into buying one.

    The filth didn't come from the bed though, it was in the pipe when the salesman fitted the attachment.

    Anyway, I'll have a gripe about NFT too.  Daz has difficulty, it seems, rendering Iray on 4.15 without a decent RTX card.  I can't buy an RTX card because of this blockchain idiocy, and now DAZ are supporting it?  Sickened. 

  • ArtAngelArtAngel Posts: 1,828
    March 2021

    Sevrin said:

    ArtAngel said:

    NFTS are non-refundable tokens.

    For the record, NFT stands for non-fungible token, meaning that one cannot be substituted for another.  People are non-fungible.  Dollars are fungible. 

     

    Thanks for mentioning this, as others have, but if you read the next line it states exactly what NFTs are. The first mention was a pun.
    post.JPG
    1300 x 927 - 419K
  • DripDrip Posts: 1,209
    March 2021

    Really, the ONLY thing people buy with an NFT is the virtual existance of some data. Unless specified otherwise, it does NOT include any rights to whatever the data means, does or represents. NFTs are merely an elaborate and inefficient way to store said data through anyone on the blockchain.

    Person 1 makes a photograph of the Mona Lisa and "mints" it as an NFT. That basically means the photograph is stored within the blockchain. Next someone pays money to become the "owner" of that NFT, which basically means that that new owner is paying for the existence of that photograph within th blockchain.

    Person 2 makes a practically identical photograph of the Mona Lisa and "mints" it as an NFT. Again, that only means the data is stored on the blockchain, and some sucker is going to pay to keep it there by adopting that data. Great, now we have two photographs of the Mona Lisa in a blockchain.

    Person 2 then decides to add the photograph to the blockchain again, and sells it to yet another dimwit. It's not the same NFT, the photograph simply gets another data segment assigned. So, now we have 3 pictures of the Mona Lisa in the blockchain, two of which are identical. That's a lot of redundant data. And 3 people paying for that data being stored, without any feasible rights to what they have stored.

     

    Now, let's make things even worse: you buy an NFT, and, without you knowing about it, its data contains something highly illegal, say, the US presidential encryption keys for transmitting the nuclear launchcodes. Yes, even if the NFT is an image, there can be some other data appended to it. And you unwittingly pay for that data to be somewhere online. Seriously, even if you got that NFT in good faith, I wouldn't want to be in your shoes.

    Right now, NFTs are just a hype for something that is actually something else entirely. It's just persistent de-centralized virtual datastorage, nothing more, nothing less.

  • GreymomGreymom Posts: 1,128
    March 2021 edited March 2021

    Just a matter of time before Quantum Computers render (pun intended) blockchain (and NFT) security ineffective.

    And, for the record, I resent being referred to as non-fungible!  wink

    Post edited by Greymom on March 2021
  • DAZ_RawbDAZ_Rawb Posts: 817
    March 2021

    Leonides02 said:

    Could you create an NFT for a .duf file? And, in that way, sell an "original" of a character?

    You could create an NFT for a .duf file, but there wouldn't be a way to make sure that people didn't keep / give away copies of it when they sold it on. (Other than copyright law). Even if it was somehow connected to a blockchain enabled version of Daz Connect (that doesn't exist),  Daz Connect doesn't require that users are online so someone could buy your figure, download it, go offline and sell your figure on to someone else. Also, Daz Studio has a ton of export functionality so your figure could be pretty easily exported to 3rd party systems where even a mytical perfectly-secure version of some blockchain DRM.

     

    That is why all the discussions around the limited usefulness of NFT's are centered around the provenance of a digital thing and not the actual digital thing.

  • Khai-J-BachKhai-J-Bach Posts: 163
    March 2021
    Digital tulips. Aka bitcoin, nfts, etc.... All tulips
  • SoapdishSoapdish Posts: 29
    March 2021
    Is this entirely optional and in no shape or form change how things were?
  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379
    March 2021

    DAZ_Rawb said:

    Leonides02 said:

    Could you create an NFT for a .duf file? And, in that way, sell an "original" of a character?

    You could create an NFT for a .duf file, but there wouldn't be a way to make sure that people didn't keep / give away copies of it when they sold it on. (Other than copyright law). Even if it was somehow connected to a blockchain enabled version of Daz Connect (that doesn't exist),  Daz Connect doesn't require that users are online so someone could buy your figure, download it, go offline and sell your figure on to someone else. Also, Daz Studio has a ton of export functionality so your figure could be pretty easily exported to 3rd party systems where even a mytical perfectly-secure version of some blockchain DRM.

     

    That is why all the discussions around the limited usefulness of NFT's are centered around the provenance of a digital thing and not the actual digital thing.

    Thank you, Rawb!

  • BradCarstenBradCarsten Posts: 856
    March 2021

    I'm no expert, but as far as I understand it, your wallet has a public key that is unique to your wallet. If someone else sells the picture, it will be linked to their wallet and not yours, and thus you will be able to varify that it is fake.  

    melissastjames said:

    BradCarsten said:

    I also think that NFT's sound interesting, and seem like a fun avenue to explore. Yeah, you can just copy an image, but, as with bitcoin, something is only worth whatever people are willing to pay, and if people value the idea of a digital asset that can be traced back to the original creator, then who am I to say that they shouldn't buy it. 

    But can it? Just like with much of Google images, who is to say someone doesn't go to your gallery, save the picture to their drive, and then upload it somewhere else to sell as an NFT? Digitial artwork is stolen every day, there's no way to completely avoid it...but this smells like an actual invitation to steal. I might as well just hang a sign on my door listing out the valuable items in my home all while leaving the door propped open for cat burglars. 

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NFT and the Future of Digital … Daz 3D Forums > General > Non-Fungible Token (NFT) Art>NFT and the Future of Digital …