An angry rant (but not exactly…
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Hi,
A couple of questions when you have time.
Are you creating/using AO maps in Substance Painter?
Which "Template" are you using for the project?
I usually don't feel the need to, but I know how. The one time I did, they were impossibly strong to use in Studio.
I created a custom tempate and export setting based off the existing Metal/Roughness one. Pretty confident that those are accurate because I don't have issues with non-organic things when texturing. I've tried adding SSS and translucency export channels, but the maps that come over don't seem to match anything Studio expects, and thus I get weird results if I try to use them the same way.
I do have another issue that I can't quite figure out. A lot of DAZ products, including many by Faveral and others that use seamless tiling UVs, do not seem to be coming over properly into Substance Painter. I assumed this was because my own export settings from Studio might be wrong, but I've tried many combinations and only one even partially works.
One image here shows the Timber Houses 1, house 1 product in DAZ Studio with the lantern's candle texture map applied to the wood panels. You can see that the tiling isn't distorted. In the next image, previewed in Substance Painter and with a procedural wood texture applied, there are bands along the lower sections of each floor that have completely different tiling than the rest of the surface. Can anyone explain why this is happening? Is it the mesh or are my settings (also posted) wrong?
In my settings, this is the only combination so far that Substance Painter would even open (otherwise I get the "Failed to Load" message). For any other type of object, these are the settings that I use *EXCEPT* Collapse UV Tiles is unchecked, and it works.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
you may be facing this issue caused by out of bounds UV's
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/162466/the-uv-wrap-export-issue-again-i-found-a-workaround-poser-d3d-dson-loader#latest
dunno if Substance has a U or V untick option similar to Carrara
Nothing helpful, but...
I keep forgetting the title of this thread and every time I scan the forum and see it, I read it as "An Angry Rat (what exactly DAZ)"... and I think it's about a new product, presumably a rat of some sort... also presumably angry.
Thats all.
@SnowSultan
Here's the Blender Docs for the Image Texture Node. See the setting "Extension"? Look for a similar setting in Substance and see if you can change it to their equivalent of "Repeat".
Wendy: It sounds like you had the same problem I'm having, but there doesn't appear to be a fix for this (not yet anyway). Substance has the usual UV transformation sliders (scale, rotation, offset, and type of UV wrap like tiling, repeat horizontally, etc), but nothing fixes this problem.
Margrave: Yeah it does and I tried it many times along with every other setting Substance has. There's something about the UVs themselves that appear to be getting tweaked upon import into Substance Painter. I even tried letting it unwrap the model itself (a new feature), that resulted in UVs where almost everything got painted on with any brush stroke.
I guess I'm going to have to try sending various products with tiling UVs over to Painter and see if any come over properly. If some do, it's got to be something with the original DAZ product's UVs.
UV Map In Daz
Collapsed UV in Blender
Collapsed UV in Blender with UV Grid
Uncollapsed UV in Blender
Uncollapsed UV in Blender with UV Grid
As you can see, Daz's UV viewport shows the texture is collapsed by default. When imported into Blender with the UVs collapsed and assigned a UV Grid, we see the warped stretching. The uncollapsed UVs, on the other hand, are five times bigger than the UV space and stretched horizontally, but are otherwise fine.
After a bit of research, this seems to be an issue with UDIMs.
What does Collapse UV Tiles do? - Daz 3D Forums
Susbtance painter stretches materials on object with UDIM tiles (substance3d.com)
I don't use Substance, so I can't say for sure, but this seems relevant:
Here are the test results I have so far:
* A wall from faveral's MICK set would not load in Substance Painter (failed to load 3D scene. Loading failed).
* I got this message when importing a clay pot from another MICK set:
[Scene 3D] Errors have been found while splitting meshes per UV tile:
Mesh 'MT-Jar4' has a face spanning across multiple tiles: UV tile 0, 0 (UDIM 1001) with vertex at U=-0.001649, V=0.218751
* Was able to import a obj (a modular piece of a castle wall) that I exported out of Unreal Engine, it was able to accept tiling textures properly in Substance Painter with no error messages. No idea why.
* Checked a bunch of Roguey/Strangefate props (as I can tell they use Substance Painter by the padding), none used tiling textures.
Margrave: I don't really understand what is going on with those collapsed Blender UV examples, but if I collapse them in Studio before exporting to Substance Painter, things don't go very well. Thanks for that video too, but that's for working with more complex UDIMs like on Genesis 3 and up.
UDIM is a UV mapping technique where multiple texture maps are laid out next to each other in one image file, since it's faster to render than multiple separate texture maps. Normally, UV coordinates wrap around if they go outside the 0.0 - 1.0 range, but UDIM requires they be allowed to go past that range so they can look up adjacent textures tiles.
Collapsing the UV Tiles will fold them so they all fit within the 0.0 - 1.0 range. That's why the collapsed tiles fit in Blender's UV editor and the uncollapsed ones are five times bigger.
Does it still not work after following the instructions in the link I posted to the Substance forum?
Right, I know what UDIMs are, I just didn't really understand what you meant by "five times bigger" (in file size or dimensions?).
The ticking of the box in the import window? Of course, I've tried just about everything at this point; that's why it's frustrating. It's starting to look like Substance Painter just doesn't like the sort of tiling UVs that some DAZ vendors use.
The UVs in those Blender screenshots, you can't see the grid in Blender's UV editor. The UV coordinates are literally five times bigger than the grid. Hence they range from -3.0 to 3.0 or so.
Looks as if Painter doesn't like polygons that span UDIM tiles. Unfortunately that is a technique (perfectly legitimate) that has been used for a long time to get texture tiling when the application s did not support it directly - application have always wrapped UVs, so anything in the [1,2] range is treated as being in the same postion in the base [0,1] range. UDIMs exploit that behaviour to move entire UV islands to a new tile, so they are separate but still behave as expected. This is a Painter limitation or issue, rather than an issue with the mdoels per se
If I'm not mistaken, Substance Painter doesn't support multi grid UV's. They either need to be stacked within 1 tile or a singular map within the tile. Once they are reapply the texture in Substance and adjust the tile size. I will have to check with Aundrea to see if I'm remembering correctly. I'm remembering little pieces but a verion back
OK, that seems to make sense. I will try creating a tiling texture on a plane in Substance Painter and apply it to a DAZ model that uses that technique. At least setting up a quick tiling texture template could make it faster to make custom textures for such items. Thanks for the help so far.
I had a quick look at importing a cube with its UVs crossing 0-1 space.
In the "New project"(import options), if "use UV tile workflow" is enabled, the import will fail with error.
If "Use UV tile workflow" is disabled, import OK. UV padding is then used, either "3D space neighbor" or "UV space neighbor"
I attempted to use the "Auto-unwrap" option at import, but that failed on the simple cube.
Thanks for confirming. Did you happen to test a texture on the non-UV tile workflow verision that worked?
On quick test.
If UVs within 0-1, then OK.
If UVs cross 0-1 boundary, then problem. Sometimes OK, other times there is corruption (stretching/distortion) on the texture map in the UV padding areas. It appears to depend on where the UV vertex are positioned in relation to the UV boundary.
this is only an issue for me with duf format geometry not Poser geometry as discussed in my thread I linked, so it is something the duf format does and it does it to my own obj files saved as duf too.
So out of bounds UVs are not a problem in themselves but rather the duf file exported as an obj or FBX from studio and not in every software.
If you have a Poser file of the same set always use that.
I wish I could help but besides fixing it in Carrara by unchecking U wrap or using DSON import into Poser 9-11, I haven't found an answer either.
going via Blender or another software without the issue might work.
Thanks to everyone for the information so far. Yeah I think those sorts of overlapping UVs just aren't going to work when going from Studio to Substance Painter. I did export a plane from Studio, created a tiling texture for it in Substance Painter, and properly applied that texture back onto an object that would not have worked if exported directly to Painter, so I'll just do that if I absolutely have to retexture something that can't make the transfer.
Hi SnowSultan,
Do you have a link (for the Daz store) to the house you are having problems with (that you show in thread).
I did look through the store, but the one I looked at did not appear to be the same.
@stem_athome
Timber Framed Houses 1 | Daz 3D
Hi Margrave, Thanks, I found it.
I am not seeing an issue.
The walls shown above. The UVs are out of (0-1) bounds and overlapping (with some areas having incorrect UV projection). but OK in both Blender and SP.
I will change some of my Export/import setting to see if I can recreate the problem
NM
Hi SnowSultan.
When exporting from DS, do not collapse UVs, it is bugged, well, it is certainly corrupting the UVs on that model.
So, in DS, export without collapsing UVs. In SP, import with option "Use UV tile workflow" disabled (not checked/ticked)
Stem: Thank you, but I've tried both of those already, multiple times, so I must be doing something else wrong then. Could you show me a little screenshot of your DAZ Studio export settings when you have time? Thanks.
SnowSultan,
Screenshots showing: Export settings from DS. Import setting for SP. View in SP(with grid texture applied to walls)
Thank you very much. Your export settings are slightly different than what I was using (not the collapse box though). Are those the settings you would use for exporting anything from Studio to Substance Painter, or just objects with overlapping UVs?
I would always use those export setting going from DS to PS. (I have not found a reason to change them, well not yet).
Have you been able to get the model into SP OK now?